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Meeting in Dumas??? about the River



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Old 04-21-2010, 07:40 AM   #1
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Meeting in Dumas??? about the River

What is this all about?
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Old 04-21-2010, 11:58 AM   #2
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I don't know anything about it??
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Old 04-21-2010, 12:08 PM   #3
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Its a NPS meeting to discuss the plans for the ohv areas.
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Old 04-21-2010, 12:12 PM   #4
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they are having one in Amarillo Thursday at the Ambassador Hotel from 5:30 to 7:30
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Old 04-21-2010, 01:10 PM   #5
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When is the meeting in dumas?
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Old 04-21-2010, 01:13 PM   #6
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Tonight at the bank im pretty sure
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Old 04-21-2010, 01:16 PM   #7
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Ok,thanks. Ill go see what they have to say.
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Old 04-21-2010, 01:18 PM   #8
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It will be at 5:30 to 7:30 at the first nat bank for sure
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Old 04-21-2010, 05:29 PM   #9
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Ok,thanks. Ill go see what they have to say.
Cool...Keep us posted...
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Old 04-23-2010, 09:25 AM   #10
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i thought all the budget of 500k was cut and nothing was gonna be done about the river here?
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Old 04-23-2010, 10:17 AM   #11
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i thought all the budget of 500k was cut and nothing was gonna be done about the river here?
Two different deals,That was state this is NPS trying to shut down most of the offroad in rosita area!I will get a link to the NPS page where comments can be put.
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Old 04-23-2010, 07:13 PM   #12
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After reading it all over & cooling down a bit-im thinking that ALL proposed plans offer alot better alternatives than the place getting fenced off/closed.

Ill post my opinions on each topic little by little,as my 2cents on this issue is very lengthy.
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Old 04-23-2010, 07:54 PM   #13
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Purpose & Need for Action

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NPS--This ORV management plan/Environmental Impact Statement presents three action alternatives for managing ORV use and assesses the impacts that could result from continuing current management(no action). Upon conclusion of this plan and decision making process,the alternative selected will become the ORV management plan,which will guide the management and control or ORVs at the national recreation area for the next 15-20 years. During that timeframe, the NPS will reexamine the plan,and may decide to extend its life.

The opening paragraph is very important. It reminds us that this isnt just a fight for our offroad rights,this will affect our childrens future of offroading as well.
This in mind,i take a step back & think Plan A(no action) shouldnt even be a option. At its current rate of 'mis'use,Rosita will never last another generation or two. (anyone remember the large bushy trees at the entrance of the river?--yea,if your younger than 30,you may not remember)



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The purpose of this plan/EIS is to manage ORV use in the national recreation area for visitor enjoyment and recreation opportunities,while minimizing and correcting damage to resources.
Basicly it boils down to--its federal land,they are going to do whatever it takes to "minimize & correct damage"
There is no denying this fact,we (the offroad community) have a responsibility to "tread lightly" whenever possible and respect the land we have access to. However,not all people see eye to eye on where the line between "irrepairable damage" and "trail blazing" lies.


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an ORV management plan for LMNRA is needed at this time to:
*comply with Executive order 11644-use of offroad vehicles on public lands
*Provide for sustainable recreational ORV use areas
*Address the lack of an approved plan,which has led to ORV use outside authorized areas
*Address resource impacts fesulting from ORV use
*Address the change in numbers,power,range and capabilities of ORVs
Again, these criteria will be met in one way or another. Sustainable,they want this to last--dont we all?(even if we have to make some changes?)
Things have changed alot since the introduction of ATVs and the old days of "playn at the river". We know it,they know it...
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Old 04-23-2010, 08:05 PM   #14
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That doesn't sound good for y'all. Tell more please...
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Old 04-23-2010, 08:12 PM   #15
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The opening paragraph is very important. It reminds us that this isnt just a fight for our offroad rights,this will affect our childrens future of offroading as well.
This in mind,i take a step back & think Plan A(no action) shouldnt even be a option. At its current rate of 'mis'use,Rosita will never last another generation or two. (anyone remember the large bushy trees at the entrance of the river?--yea,if your younger than 30,you may not remember)




Basicly it boils down to--its federal land,they are going to do whatever it takes to "minimize & correct damage"
There is no denying this fact,we (the offroad community) have a responsibility to "tread lightly" whenever possible and respect the land we have access to. However,not all people see eye to eye on where the line between "irrepairable damage" and "trail blazing" lies.




Again, these criteria will be met in one way or another. Sustainable,they want this to last--dont we all?(even if we have to make some changes?)
Things have changed alot since the introduction of ATVs and the old days of "playn at the river". We know it,they know it...
I do not live there but granted I will be a voice to keep it open.













Yet look at it this way.


With the way the gooberment is going I think it won't be around much longer. Then it will be back to the good ole days.
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Old 04-23-2010, 08:14 PM   #16
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I do not live there but granted I will be a voice to keep it open.
Agreed. You can count me in for the battle.
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Old 04-23-2010, 08:18 PM   #17
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Objectives in Taking Action

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Objectives are "what MUST be achieved to a large degree for the action to be considered a success".
The following are objectives identifyed by the national recreation area staff for developing this ORV management plan/EIS.

VISITOR USE and SAFTY
*Manage ORV use to minimize conflicts among different ORV users.
*Promote safe operation of ORVs and safty of all visitors.
Those 2 issues alone can get people excited. How about seperate "zones",helmets in your rock buggy/jeep,vehicle liability insurance,vehicle legality,ATV training,speed zones...the list could get real long regarding what one person deems "safe" vs. another persons opinion.

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MANAGEMENT
*Build stewardship through public awareness and understanding of NPS resource management and visitor use policy and responsibilities as they pertain to the national recreation area and ORV management.

NATIONAL RESOURCES
*Preserve and protect threatned,endangered,and other protected species and their habitats.
*Define effective strategies for soil erosion control and restoration of plant resources to support wildlife populations.
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CULTURAL RESOURCES
*Preserve and protect significant cultural resources whithin the national recreation area
*Work with interested parties to identify cultural resources that could be adversely affected by ORV use.

NATIONAL RECREATION AREA OPERATIONS
*Identify needs and costs necessary to implement an ORV plan.
*Minimize impacts to national recreation area operations and costs necessary to implement an ORV plan.
Im sure,at any cost to our future at the canadian river,these objectives WILL be met.
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Old 04-23-2010, 08:29 PM   #18
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Draft Alternatives-Common Elements

Regardless what plan of action the NPS decides on,the following will be common to all possible plans of action.

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OPERATOR/VEHICLE REQUIREMENTS
--Vehicle Requirements. All vehicles operating in any area of the recreation area must have a decal for ORV use,per Tx state law.


CAMPFIRES
Activities related to camping,such as campfires,would continue to be regulated--with additional restrictions during hi fire danger times
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Old 04-23-2010, 08:31 PM   #19
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Those 2 issues alone can get people excited. How about seperate "zones",helmets in your rock buggy/jeep,vehicle liability insurance,vehicle legality,ATV training,speed zones...the list could get real long regarding what one person deems "safe" vs. another persons opinion.





Im sure,at any cost to our future at the canadian river,these objectives WILL be met.

Go take a look at the land use forums over on PBB. Take note of what they are doing in the Rubicon area. That will give the locals A good plan of attack.
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Old 04-23-2010, 08:39 PM   #20
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Alternative A: Continuation of Current Management(no action)

At first glance,Alternitave A was the only option i thought good for us. I think i was simply being selfish & greedy. For anything this good to last,changes will have to be made. People will get angered,and questions will be asked.

Quote:
Under Alternitive A(no action), the park would continue to manage ORV use at rosita flats(the east end of the river for you non locals) and Blue creek. All "common elements would be implemented and enforced. There will also continue to be no limitation on the operating hours of vehicles. No additional ORV management measures would be established.
Really...do you think the NPS is just going to turn there heads for the next 15-20 years?
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Old 04-23-2010, 08:47 PM   #21
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Like I pointed out in another thread.

It will take everyone in the area along with the local gov. to make the out come what you want. Pressure is the only thing gov understands. If they feel like they won't get the votes they will 180 like a like a cat going into a dog house and pander to you.

You have to play the game and work the system.

So start now and raise a stink. Get the business's on your side nothing changes minds like a hit to the pocket book.
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Old 04-23-2010, 09:00 PM   #22
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Elements Common to Action Alternatives B,C and D

In addition to requirements in Alternative A....

Quote:
OPERATOR/VEHICLE REQUIREMENTS
*All ORVs would be required to have a functioning muffler system,a qualified spark arrester,and functioning headlights & taillights.
*Vehicle mufflers on ORVs that allow more than 96 decibles of sound would be prohibited
*All aTVs would be required to have a triangular orange flag on top of an 8' pole attached to the back of the vehicle
*All ORVs would be required to display lighted headlights & taillights after dark


WASTE DISPOSAL
The NPS would continue to provide waste disposal services


HOURS of VEHICLE OPERATION
....in designated camping areas,non registered motorized vehicles would be prohibited from operating between 10:00pm and 6:00am


SPEED LIMITS
The maximum speed limit in all ORV areas/routes would be 35mph,with a speed limit of 15 moh in designated camping areas

Expect all this to be the basis of any new rules. As Alternatives B,C or D are the most likely choices for the NPS
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Old 04-23-2010, 09:05 PM   #23
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Alternative B--Seek transfer in ownership of rosita flats

Quote:
Under Alternative B,the NPS would seek to revise the recreation boundry to exclude the rosita flats area

Very interesting.....the NPS is looking to give the land back to the state. Could this be the saving grace we need? Or could this open up a whole different battle?
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Old 04-23-2010, 09:40 PM   #24
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Alternative C:Management of ORV--Zones and Permits

This is where it gets scary to me,again-maby just being selfish.

Quote:
Under Alternative C the park would base the designation of routes and areas on a zoning system,with one of the pourposes being seperation of visitor uses that have potential to be in conflict with one another.

Orv use would only be permitted on designated,marked routes. ORVs could only access the riverbed area from marked access points off the designated ORV routes. Driving on vegetation would be prohibited.

Alternative C would also institute a zoning system,that would be a "layer" on top of these routes and areas that would further manage use. Zones established could include: Camping Only Zones,Hunting Zones,Resourse Protected Zones,Low-Speed Zones,and Beginner Zones.

..would also include a ORV permit system,with no limit on the number of permits issued. This permit would be of no cost to the user,and would be provided in a effort to increse user education regarding ORV rules at the park. Establishment of a user capacity would not occur under alternative C.

...would also prohibit consumption of alcohol while operating an ORV
Designated routes....BAD,unless you want to take a sunday drive in your golf cart with your great grand kids. You can be sure there wont be any "hard-core" zones,or unlimited speed zones...how about a 750hp+ zone,do you think thatll be high on there to-do list??

Permit system...good idea,but only if there is a reason to be at Rosita

River Crossings...lets see how those crossings look after several hundred ORVs use those few crossings alone. I forsee a NPS truck wiperblade deep in the quick sand at any of the few crossings.
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