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[ATTN OLD GOAT] Headlight/Off-Road Light Wiring



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Old 07-22-2006, 09:56 PM   #1
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Question [ATTN OLD GOAT] Headlight/Off-Road Light Wiring

I'm using Old Goat's relay and harness kit to set up four off-road lights to work off my headlight stalk. The idea is for when LO is selected on the stalk, 2 will come on and when HI is selected, the other 2 will come on. Goat's harness wires two relays in series so you can do this and basically all you have to do is find which lead goes 'hot' for lo and hi, tie into those and you are golden.

But, I've run into a problem.

Goat's harness works fine, but my factory headlight connector is three prongs, like this if you were holding it up to your face and looking straight at it (I'll number the prongs for clarity):

1 _

2| 3|

Scenarios:

A. Lights off and nothing plugged into the connector: #3 is hot
B. Lights off and headlight is plugged in: #3 is hot
C. LO on and headlight is plugged in: #3 is hot and #2 is hot
D. HI on and headlight is plugged in: #3 is hot and #1 is hot
E. LO on and nothing plugged into the connector: #3 is hot
F. HI on and nothing plugged into the connector: #3 is hot

So, #3 seems to be a constant-hot "trigger" for LO (#2) and HI (#1) and I'm guessing the headlight filament serves as a resistor between the contacts (?).

How do I wire this up (Goat's setup basically has 1 hot per relay that needs to get a 'switch on' signal)?? Trying to plug Goat's harness into #2 or #1 alone does nothing. Plugging into #3 gives me 2 lights on all the time, of course. I'm thinking I need some kind of resistor setup between 3, 2 and 1? Help!
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Old 07-23-2006, 12:26 PM   #2
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hmmm

Well, the headlamp needs a common ground and then from that common ground the 2 filaments which are made tungsten and are the resistive elements of the circuit so this gives us three "prongs" or blades or terminals, use the word you like best. In your given example, a very good one I will say, we should not have any voltage on any of the terminals with the light switch off. What needs to happen is one of the terminals should be grounded and the other two fed voltage depending on the stalk being in high or low beam position. I am going to find a Zuki manual and read the electrical schematic to see what is going on here.
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Old 07-23-2006, 12:41 PM   #3
 
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oldgoat, go to autozones website, you can view the electrical schematic there for free.
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Old 07-23-2006, 01:46 PM   #4
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I was assuming that the headlight body, bolted to the car body, was providing ground. When I think about it though, I guess not since I plugged the headligt in loose last night and it worked fine. Specifically, I hung on to the headlights after I pulled them and plugged one in to run the scenarios in my first post. The headlight works just as it should-- off, lo and hi. So, I'm left to assume the Sammi stalk switch and headlight terminal wiring is functioning as intended.

As you know from my project thread, some of this Japanese wiring is kooky (like the dimmer function working through ground, rather than positive).
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Old 07-23-2006, 01:55 PM   #5
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Oh, and as for a schematic

Have a look at this, plus, I can email you the full size version, as well.


http://www.texas4x4.org/gallery/Samu...iwiringdiagram

Go there and click on it for full size, which is pretty legible, especially if you 'save as' and then work with it. Thanks for the help!
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Old 07-23-2006, 09:30 PM   #6
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see below
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Old 07-23-2006, 09:30 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vagabond
Remember, on many of the Zuk switches, it's the ground that is switched. Test them again with the meter attached to the 'hot" side of the battery instead of the ground.
Got this reply on Zuwharrie.
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Old 07-24-2006, 12:54 PM   #8
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yep

Quote:
Originally Posted by xanthias
I was assuming that the headlight body, bolted to the car body, was providing ground. When I think about it though, I guess not since I plugged the headligt in loose last night and it worked fine. Specifically, I hung on to the headlights after I pulled them and plugged one in to run the scenarios in my first post. The headlight works just as it should-- off, lo and hi. So, I'm left to assume the Sammi stalk switch and headlight terminal wiring is functioning as intended.

As you know from my project thread, some of this Japanese wiring is kooky (like the dimmer function working through ground, rather than positive).

As I was briefly taking a look at the schematic it occured to me you are correct, in this situation the vehicle is using ground to switch the beams and not B+ like US vehicles do. There is a workaround and I will figure it out, give me a couple of days though.
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Old 07-24-2006, 12:58 PM   #9
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more

On the Left headlamp the wht w/ blu tracer is getting power from the fuse box and on the right headlamp the wht w/ red tracer is getting power from the fuse box from yet a second fuse lol
Pretty messy for a factory wire job. I will take some time tonight and engineer a work around so you can use that harness.
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Old 07-24-2006, 01:38 PM   #10
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Goat, assuming it is a 'switched ground' setup, why couldn't you run the "switch on" power leads from your harness (the yellow and blue) to a constant hot, then run individual grounds for the 2 relays to the appropriate OEM prong?
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Old 07-24-2006, 05:08 PM   #11
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hmm

Send the harness back to me and I will redo it for negative polarity switching. Of course as you can see this is not going to help with getting higher battery voltage to the headlights as originally intended, but will allow you to have all 4 filaments on at once.
Actually I am going to build you a custom harness to take care of this problem brother because it is going to be a large headache to try and rewire the harness. I will label the new harness with the right connection points.
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Old 07-24-2006, 05:10 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xanthias
Goat, assuming it is a 'switched ground' setup, why couldn't you run the "switch on" power leads from your harness (the yellow and blue) to a constant hot, then run individual grounds for the 2 relays to the appropriate OEM prong?
I am thinking we cannot do this because the diode is backwards and will not allow all 4 fillaments to come on.
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Old 07-24-2006, 05:24 PM   #13
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OG, Let me run a meter in reverse on the headlight connector prongs to be sure, first. As the Zuwharrie poster was suggesting, I should run the meter + to the battery + and then run the meter - to the OEM prongs 1 and 2 and see what I get on the different scenarios/switch settings in the first post.

Let me do that and post it here before we get too far ahead of ourselves and see if the meter seems to confirm this idea of how we think things are working.

As for custom harness, there has got to be a way to pull in that voltage! Got to! And, no way in hell you are doing that for me for free, so PM me about what I need to do to make that right. Or, we could post up the 'cure' if you think I have enough snap to follow your instructions and I'll then turn that into a tech post (with due credit to you) on a couple of the Zuk boards. I know I'm not the first person to want to do this.
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Old 07-24-2006, 05:47 PM   #14
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Ok

Man I would do it for free because customer satisfaction is very important.
Yes we could modify the setup to work and there is really no need to do the DVM test except to verify the negative switching.
All you need to do is ground both relays terminals numbered 30 and then run one relay terminal numbered 87 to each headlamps terminal 1 and then the other relays terminal numbered 87 to each headlamps terminal 2. This is ASSUMING the factory + voltage is coming in on terminal #3!!!IF IT IS NOT LET ME KNOW and I will rethink this solution. The wire colors you will be running these to are left lamp and right lamp red wire and the right and left lamp red w/ wht tracer according to the schematic I read. I am still thinking we will need to change the polarity of the diode. Now you will finally need to take the back side of the red wire to terminal number 85 of one relay and the red with wht tracer to the other relay terminal number 85.
All this still only has accomplished getting all 4 headlamp filaments to come on at the same time on high beam of course. You can still go to low beam and have only 2 filaments burning. Also the schematic was not clear enough to allow me to find out if this is already how they are getting high beams lol Sorry. If that is what is happening just skip all the above and move on to this next step. To get more voltage and current to the lighting system you can leave the factory switching as is and take the new the relay setup you have and cut the wht w/ blu tracer (left headlamp) and cut the wht w/ red tracer (right headlamp)and hook these to terminals 87 and 30 on each relay, this will allow the larger wire size to carry more current and voltage to the headlamps, you will need to do all this cutting and splicing as close to the headlamp as possible to get the best results. Sounds like a lot of trouble and it is but be patient and jsut think negative switching and you will be fine.
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Old 07-24-2006, 05:51 PM   #15
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hmm

I am going to eat now at my dads BBQ place, my brain is hurting lol
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Old 07-24-2006, 05:59 PM   #16
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I read that twice and my head is hurting too. I'll just run the meter to confirm negative switching and we'll stagger forward from there. Just FYI, let me confirm on my '86, pins 1 and 2 are serviced by the same color wires on both the passenger and driver side, Red/White for prong 1 and Red for prong 2. On the driver side prong 3 is White/Blue and on the passenger side, it's White/Red.

Also, take a look at this thread that is a variant I posted on Zuwharrie. Have a look at bcrewcaptain's post in particular:

http://bbs.zuwharrie.com/content/topic,42474.0.html
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Old 07-25-2006, 10:45 AM   #17
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hmm

yep, what he is saying is basically what I was trying hard to say above, this solution will only help in getting all 4 headlamps to come on, it will not help with getting higher voltage and more current to the headlamps without another relay in the mix.
Yes, the prong #3 wires get the + voltage from the fuse panel, one fuse for each lamp, cut this wire , close to the headlamp and put 1/4" female spade lugs on the wires. Get another relay with 85 grounded, 86 getting the feed wire from the fuse panel, 30 going straight to the battery and 87 going to the other side of the cut which goes to the headlamps. You will need to do this for the wht w/ blu tracer wire, left headlamp and also for the right headlamp wht w/ red tracer so in all you will be adding 2 more relays in addition to the original relay harness. The reason you are going to be forced to add these extra relays is because of the negative switching which has no place to increase voltage or current.
I know this all seems clear as mud but, just hook it up one step at a time and all should be fine. By the way you will still need to hook up the original harness as detailed a few post above this one and we may have to change the polarity of the diode as well unless your test showed all 4 filaments come on with it on high or if it just switches to a "brighter filament" on high beam??? If the 1st statement is true and all 4 filaments come on with the stalk on high beam then you only need to do this modification in this post using the harness you bought. There will not be a need for any other modifications.
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Old 07-25-2006, 07:21 PM   #18
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I think I'm going to have to sit down and draw this up to figure it out . . . but I'm getting that your solution in post 17 is intended to pick up our voltage from the battery. But, since prong 3 is hot all the time, I don't see how I can use it with your setup....

I understand the solution in post 14 is an effort to then allow the switching to work. But, I believe stock HI just switches to another filament in the headlight in normal operation with a regular headlight.

I'm starting to think maybe it'd just be easier to wire in 2 switches instead, though that's really not what I wanted to do. Much less elegant.
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Old 07-26-2006, 08:12 AM   #19
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Ok

I am not deliberately trying to make it difficult, the Suzuki engineers did a fine job of that. It boils down to what do you ultimately want to happen? If you want all 4 filaments to come on when you put the factory stalk in high beam then it is going to take some doing but remember the whole point of doing the direct to battery thing is to minimize the job of the barely large enough, voltage dropping, factory "we are going to cheap out and save some money" wires out of the main picture and use those wires to switch a large efficient relay with large enough wire "current carrying " capacity to safely do a job.
If you want to minimize the amount of relays then do not do the extra relays to improve current but do the relays to switch all 4 lights on at one time. One of the posts above shows how to do this. Later today when time permits i will draw it out and post it.
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Old 07-26-2006, 09:40 AM   #20
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I totally agree the complexity is due to the Bizarro switching scheme and I appreciate all the time you're taking to help me sort it out.

I ideally want 4 filaments on hi, 2 on lo, and pulling the additional current and all working off the factory stalk. I would not want to run 4 100W filaments on the existing OEM harness. I'm out of town right now and I haven't run my meter tests again yet to see what we get. I will do that in the next couple of days.

I'm just having a hard time visualizing the solutions you've posted. I'm willing to customize with extra relays - my problem at the moment is a comprehension problem. After I understand what's going to work, I'll try to figure out if it's worth the effort.
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Old 07-26-2006, 12:52 PM   #21
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Ok

Roger that, it is tough to visualize, it is much easier with a good road map(schematic). I hate tracing stuff with no schematic.
I do not mind hitting it till we make it work. I want the product to function properly and once we are through this one i will have a harness for Zuks. It will all be worth the time.
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Old 07-26-2006, 04:36 PM   #22
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Ok!!!!

Here it is, the solution, took me awhile but I figured how to get it all done with only one relay, enjoy.

ZUKI only fix:



Just to review for US vehicles:





Hope this helps.
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Old 07-26-2006, 08:53 PM   #23
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Studying intently. Very nice of you to draw up.

1. Now, this diagram illustrates a fix both to enable 4 filaments and draw additional current . . correct?
2. The 20 amp line with A and B labels, I don't understand that . . .?
3. Tell me the function of the optional diodes, also?
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Last edited by xanthias; 07-26-2006 at 09:02 PM..
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Old 07-27-2006, 07:14 AM   #24
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ok

The wire with the 20 amp fuse supplies the straight battery voltage to the headlamps to points A and B which is where your "old" factory wire which came from the fuse panel. You will cut the old factory wires out of the circuit at points A and B and cap them off and connect the new wire to both headlamps. Yes the system used 2 seperate feeds from the fuse panel but we are not because it was stupid
The 2 diodes are optional but, I strongly suggest using them to prevent any back emf. It will work without them, it is your choice. Very sorry for the fuzzy diagram, will post a clearer one ASAP
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Old 07-27-2006, 11:13 AM   #25
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On the upside, I think you are going to have some Zuki guys lined up to buy a Zuk-Custom harness now after you get all this worked out . . .
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