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swap from sm465 to NV 4500 5 Speed



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Old 03-09-2009, 12:48 PM   #1
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swap from sm465 to NV 4500 5 Speed

will this work? i mean will everything bolt right up or is there any changes i needa make.
if it will work does any one know where i can find one at a good price?
thanks guys.
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Old 03-09-2009, 01:26 PM   #2
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I think the nv4500 is a hair longer, maybe 1 or 1 1/2 inches IIRC

When I was looking for an nv4500 the cheepest one I found was $700 and that was used. Seems like folks are proud of them. I picked up my 465 for $50 and that was with a hydro bellhousing.
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Old 03-09-2009, 01:42 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by chvyracing08 View Post
will this work? i mean will everything bolt right up or is there any changes i needa make.
if it will work does any one know where i can find one at a good price?
thanks guys.
I am in the process of doing this exact swap.

There are two different style of GM NV4500's. They are:

92-95 has a 6.34:1 low, unique bell housing bolt pattern to GM, and a bottle top aluminum shifter. Reverse gear is not syncronized

95-up has 5.61:1 low, shared bell housing bolt pattern with Dodge, new square shift top, reverse syncronized.

ONLY 4WD VERSIONS WILL WORK. NO 2WD!!!


NV4500 stock bell housing will not be able to be used in 73-87 trucks since the hydraulic clutch slave cylinder is on the passenger side. It will interfere with the drive shaft. SM465 bell housing will not bolt up. You will need to use an Advance Adapters Bell Housing.


First, you must know if your engine is pre-1986, or post-1986, as the crank area is different and is addressed in the different versions of bell housings available.


For the 92-95 version, you will need Advance Adapters 712577 Bell Housing and should you choose to use hydraulics instead of mechanical linkage, you will also need Advance Adapters 715535 Slave cylinder bracket. I believe their bell housing will work with the mechanical linkage. You need to call them to confirm.


For the 95-up version, you will need Advance Adapters 712576 or 712586 Bell Housing. Same issue with the linkage applies.


Click Here for Advance Adapters Transmission to Engine options.


If you choose to go with a hydraulic set-up, you will need:

1986 Clutch Master Cylinder- Dorman CM39732
1986 Clutch Slave Cylinder - Dorman CS37791
1986 Clutch Hydraulic Hose - Dorman H38559
1985-1987 Hydraulic Clutch Pedal Assembly (mechanical pedal can be modified)



GM NV4500's are 10 spline input, 32 spline output. Any 32 spline 205 (circular), 208, 241 and 243 transfer case, passenger side drop, will work.



I got my NV4500 through All State Gear here in San Antonio. Contact David and let him know I referred you. He'll cut you a great deal. www.allstategear.com


You will need to get the shifter boot assembly and shifter for the transmission as well. GM to GM only as they use a different thread than Dodge.


Cross members that will work are the single hump or double hump from the late 70's and mid 80's. The straight across will not work with this application.


Back up switch plugs are compatible through 95.


You will need to modify the center hump in the truck as the SM465 shifter is forward on the tranny top, while the NV4500 is rearward on the tranny top.


No driveshaft modifications should be necessary as the SM465 and the NV4500 with their respective t-case adapters are only 1/2" in difference (NV4500 is longer).


Per Advance Adapters, clutch should be 11". If you have a 12" as I have, you will need to check fitment. Grinding of the bell housing may be necessary to fit the 12" or high hat clutches.

Here is an article on doing this swap:

NV4500 swap


Some pictures for you:

Single Hump Cross Member...



NV4500 early version with the following upgrades:

Late model top (Early had shift linkage issues)
Upgrades syncronization servos
Syncronized reverse gear
Late model main shaft
Late model 5th gear lock nut



Dorman Master Cylinder...



Dorman Slave Cylinder (modified w/AA)...



Advance Adapters Bell Housing...



Advance Adapters Clutch Slave Cylinder Bracket...



GM 12346190 Syntorq NV4500 Transmission Fluid (MUST USE)



Center hump before (SM465)...



Center hump after (ready for NV4500)...



I'm doing my swap the weekend of the 21/22. I'll have losts of pics and will post up.

Hope this information helped you. If I missed anything, I'll update.

Manny
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Old 03-21-2009, 02:16 PM   #4
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This is good info, But my experience has been that the 205, even with a circular pattern, still needs an adapter to gain clearance for the shifter. Advance adapter # 50-6910.
Hope this helps somewhat.
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Old 03-21-2009, 04:32 PM   #5
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ONLY 4WD VERSIONS WILL WORK. NO 2WD!!!
Really? http://www.texas4x4.org/showthread.php?t=11743
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Old 03-21-2009, 08:04 PM   #6
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Man I was way off. Novak lists the 4500 as almost 7 inches longer than a 465. My bad.
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Old 03-22-2009, 06:42 AM   #7
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Haha,

Okay 4x4 you got me. I should have been clearer....

You can use a 2wd unit, however it will probably cost you more to do the divorce set-up then it would if you dealt directly with the 4wd version.

Thanks to 4x4 for pointing out my error. I don't like to mislead anyone.

Thanks,

Manny
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Old 03-22-2009, 07:45 AM   #8
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I probably have about a 1k in the swap for everything. It's well worth every penny though. The gearing split is much better and I have overdrive so I can run lower gears in the axles.
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Old 04-22-2009, 04:19 PM   #9
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i am using a late model 4500 with a 205...no adapters necessary, just some grinding to the stock 4500 adapter and a custom shifter mount..its real easy to make one out of strap steel. I am using the internal slave with the stock 86 chevy master....I have the wrong clutch installed right now though, the stock 86 clutch is different than the internal slave clutches are
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Old 04-23-2009, 06:23 AM   #10
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would you mind posting some actual pics of it on the vehicle i'd like to see the setup. i am really considering doing this swap once i can save up some extra cash. i am going to try and sneak away from the hydraulic setup just yet tho. would i be able to add it later?
thanks again guys
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Old 04-23-2009, 06:59 AM   #11
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Put the hyrdo on it now. You wont regret it if you actually wheel the truck.
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Thats pretty much how I feel about it....You gone yet?
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Old 04-23-2009, 08:14 AM   #12
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Whats the point in doing this if he has a good solid tranny. Just to gain the 5th gear.

I got allmost $2g's in my nv4500 swop.But mine started off as 2wd diesel trans. Plus i only wanted dealer parts only to. But i put mine behind a dodge 318ci magnum. After i blew 3 nv3500 trannys in 2.5 year. 300+hp x 37's well tear so stuff up on the street.
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Old 04-23-2009, 09:02 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by 4x4Freak View Post
Put the hyrdo on it now. You wont regret it if you actually wheel the truck.
i probably will end up doing this, i just have every one elsesd problem BIG plans and a small budget, i dunno what to start with lol. but it would make since to have a hydro clutch out wheelin, it would be alot easier on that left leg.
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Old 04-23-2009, 09:06 AM   #14
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ramrock your right the tranny i have now is rock solid and i have no problems what so ever, but i would like to have more choices with my gearing and rpm range. now 1st gear is almost useless driving anywhere, 2nd and 3rd are too big of jump in between to grab a gear if its not just the right rpms, and 4th is overkill overdrive lol. maybe im just being difficult. my truck is a weekend truck i drive it on street and offroad, it has a built stroker maybe throwin 475hp from what i can remember from dyno, runnin 40" hawgs and 4:56 gears. eventually i plan on gettin 4:88, and i think i will will like my gear selection better with a 5-speed. too bad i cant figure out how to put a 6 speed
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Old 04-23-2009, 09:19 AM   #15
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gm makes a badass 6 speed auto now!!
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Old 04-23-2009, 11:40 AM   #16
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gm makes a badass 6 speed auto now!!
Allison?



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Old 04-23-2009, 12:28 PM   #17
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What about a nv5400 or is it a nv5600. The new 6speed in dodges. Id bet A/adpters has the stuff to put that trans to a chevy block.
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Old 04-23-2009, 12:49 PM   #18
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hell ya its allison but i dont have that kinda cash lol. my company truck is an 08 2500 hd , its got the allison and a 6.0, if all else fails that might be where i turn to parts haha.
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Old 04-23-2009, 04:57 PM   #19
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The 5 speed will really wake that engine up. Even with a big block the 2-3 split was horrible. Although not real great with the 5 speed, it is a lot better now. It's also easier to shift with a closer pattern. Not to mention the overdrive.

This is with the early chevy transmission though. I have driven a 97 dodge with the 4500 behind a cummins and the 2-3 split was horrible, but they used different ratios.

Now if I could just put a dodge g-56 behind a BBC that would be a nice setup.
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Old 04-23-2009, 06:19 PM   #20
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They do make a shortshift shifter for the nv4500. They help alot. My brother had one in his hotshot truck. Man i was nice.

With my gas motor i touck off in 2nd to 3rd to 5th. Thats with 300+hp, 4.56grs and 37's. And thats getting it.
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Old 04-24-2009, 06:11 AM   #21
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thats what i was aiming for, this sm465 is great dont get me wrong but when its wound up tight at some rpms that thing is not going to shift in time to catch a smooth gear lol. from what i've heard the 5-speed is alot easier shifting and i can start taking care or the rice burners on the street around here.. does anyone know of any down sides to the 5-speed? from what i've gathered its an all around bad @$$ tranny but there is always gonna be that little somethin.
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Old 04-24-2009, 06:59 AM   #22
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5th gear nut,4x4modle sould fix this. Sencors with a gas motor's dont last long and the seals, And speed shifting them. You can break the shift fork in them.

Thing is that these trans were built for low rpm high torque and pulling. Spending the money on the shortshift kit help out alot on these problems. Other then that. There a super strong trans.
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Old 04-24-2009, 07:36 AM   #23
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Mine doesnt have the nut. IIRC, it is all held together by the yoke nut.

Here's some more info about the problem. http://quad4x4.com/NV4500%205th%20Ge...0Solutions.htm This place also sells some upgraded parts if you can afford them.

If you get a used tranny I would highly recommend rebuilding it, or atleast pull it apart and check it out. They are pretty simple to work on, just be sure you keep track of where everything goes. Also, most rebuild kits dont come with all the bearings. I ended up having to buy some extras once I got it broke down. Also check the thrust surface on the input gear, mine was badly pitted and needed replaced.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RVREDDOG
Thats pretty much how I feel about it....You gone yet?
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Old 04-24-2009, 08:40 AM   #24
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If you have a NV4500, I suggest too that you rebuild it. Make sure you have the following upgrades done...

1. Later half (95-up) shift tower. The square top fixes all the shifting problems associated with the earlier bottle top version. Early model bottle tops are notorious for 2-3 gear popping out.

2. Later half (95-up) synchro's. These too are updated and much stronger.

3. Synchronize the reverse gear. Early models do not have such animal.

4. 5th gear nut upgrade.


Also, the GM version does NOT have a rear output seal. The adapter will fill completely with gear oil and will be against the t-case. Make very sure you have an excellent seal between the adapter and t-case. If you don't, when the engine is started and the tranny internals start turning, it creates pressure and will force the oil through any thin/missed spots.

Ask me how I know this.....

Short shifter is available but it's for the Dodge NV4500's only. Theoretically you could use it in the GM, but you would have to get a Dodge shifter handle because the thread size and pitch are different than Chevy's.

Think about adding tranny coolers. They would replace the PTO covers and will aid in keeping temperatures down. They have provisions for a temperature guage, which I added to mine. The ones I used are from Blumenthal and are available on the web.







I also highly recommend from www.quad4x4.com, their oil filter kit. It has a beefy filtration system and a big magnet inside to catch any metal shavings. Yes, the tranny already has a magnet on the bottom, but an extra one won't hurt. You can use it with out without a tranny cooler.







You will also need to remove your center hump, weld closed the SM465 opening and cut a new opening for the NV4500 shifter. The SM465's is forward on the top, whereas the NV4500 is rearwards.

If you have an NP208 you will have to modify the shifter housing as that and the shifter boot cannot share the same space. No mod is required for a NP205 as the hole is fine for that shifter.











That's all I can think of right now.

Manny
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Old 04-24-2009, 09:12 AM   #25
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I have never seen a need to add all of that cooler stuff. Seriously is it really that big of a deal in a manual tranny? What's slipping that's causing a lot of heat build up? In the Auto tranny it's the torque converter. In the manual tranny it's "Maybe" the bearings turning, but if they heat up under normal use then there's something wrong with it. Such as wornout bearing, or not the proper gear oil.

I think the tranny cooler is over kill for normal wheeling, but great for mall crawlers! LOL
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1979 camaro
2003 ranger
1979 F-100


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