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Transmission & OD Advice Please



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Old 10-24-2012, 10:30 AM   #1
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Transmission & OD Advice Please

I am building a truck with a 454 for towing, and I want OD capability. I actually want to be able to tow in OD without hurting the transmission. So this leaves out the automatics. It also seems to leave out the NV4500 as it has weak links in it.

I can use the SM465 and then add the Ranger OD unit, but really have not heard any first person info about their reliability. Anyone have any input on them? Would be cool to have the 8 speeds when towing.

Advance Adapters say they can handle 420 ft lbs input torque. My 454 might possibly be over 420 lbs. They also rate it as being able to handle 25000 lbs GVW.

I have also seen a few threads about going to the Spicer 3053A which looks as though it could be a non use issue with me, as my 454 is externally balanced, and in one thread I saw, they said if you have the externally balanced 454 you can't do this because you have to switch to a larger flywheel, like in the C-60/C70 or School bus.

If so, then that means going to any of the Eaton Fuller medium duty truck transmissions won't work either. Any comments? I mean I really do not understand the internal, and external balance issue. I thought ALL flywheels were balanced.. Shows what I know. Guess that's why I am posting, cuz I don't know..
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Old 10-24-2012, 11:31 AM   #2
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NV4500"s do have weak links.
But most break under 1500 rpm's with high output diesels and most break from lugging them with loads.
Most gas motors built power mid to high rpm's. So your not lugging the drivetrain.

I have one in a 97 dodge with a 318m that puts 300hp at the tires(37"s). I have never had a problems out of it.
Now in both of my brother's hot shot trucks,both had nv4500/12v both with over 500k. Out of them miles he had to fix the 5th gear nuts. And we did that in the driveway at his house.

Dont rule out the nv4500. The internet has gaven them a bad name.
There getting alot eazier to find and eazy to rebuild. Lots of them on Craigslist.
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Old 10-24-2012, 12:06 PM   #3
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Old 10-24-2012, 12:20 PM   #4
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67jeep, can I ask why it leaves out automatics?? You can tow in od with them, lots of people do to be honest. Autos have come a long way over the years and you have a few options. Look into a 4l80e, you can make the tranny computer all standalone, and have a modernized automatic capable of towing. The 4500 should be more than capable as well for regular towing usage behind a 454. What are you planning to tow??? Also remember to have a good ratio in the rear for towing, which in turn will take stress off the engine and transmission.
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Old 10-24-2012, 08:03 PM   #5
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I second the 4L80 and the nv4500. If you like autos, than an 80 can be built relatively inexpensive to handle what power you're putting out. The 4500 has a bad wrap around the fifth gear nut, mainly behind a cummins. I know first hand and have repaired mine twice. I went with Chrysler's newest correction and knock on wood, it's still holding.
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Old 10-24-2012, 08:33 PM   #6
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Ok, on the NV 4500 you say the 5th gear nuts. What is the problem with those? I have heard they loosen, but is there something else? What is the fix? Different type of nut, and loctite?
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Old 10-24-2012, 08:45 PM   #7
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They loosen, but from the way I understand it is usually caused when lugging the truck in od.. A lot of people use a new nut, and put a small tack weld on. Something small and simple. It's nothing to make you shy away from them as they are still very good transmissions.
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Old 10-24-2012, 08:52 PM   #8
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Towing anything rules out automatics. Lol. Nv4500 all the way.
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Old 10-24-2012, 08:58 PM   #9
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The 4L80 is supposedly strong enough, but then you got to add the computer, which is pretty expensive itself. I got a bid from PATC in Bossier City, and it was over $5500 for the 4L80. Monster Transmissions is a bit cheaper, but still up there. I got a bid from another transmission shop locally, and he says he will "Guarantee" a 700R4 to do the job. Yet is guarantee isn't going to help me when I am in the middle of BFE. But here is the rub, the OD gears on the autos are from what I have been told are rated at no more than 4500# continuous towing, and supposedly this is the 4L80 as well. My trailer is 7000#. I have my 454 built for low rpm high torque. Isky cam rated from 1200 rpm to 5000. Cleaned up & polished stock heads, Eldelbrock Performer intake and a 650 cfm carb with mechanical secondaries. I am wanting to have a tranny that will be able to handle the low rpm torque in OD and not have a problem with it. Yes, I realize that when I get to a hill I will have to shift and not lug it too much. But what drives me nuts is when trying to tow on nearly level ground that an auto still will want to seek gears. So I should have been more clear, the cost of the 4L80 is too much, and the controversy of each shop saying one thing or another about their autos. Plus, the LOW gear on the auto's isn't is as low as I would like to see. I don't do major rock crawling, but I do get in some trails and forestry roads that it is best that you do a low range crawl. I am planning a long range trip to Alaska, and then return via some not so published roads across Canada, and getting back in the US near Buffalo, NY. I need strength and reliability mainly. I know the SM465 is stout, but I still don't know about the Ranger OD unit. Anyone know anything about it?
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Old 10-24-2012, 09:17 PM   #10
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This is my build:

1967 Jeep M-715 frame and box, 1967 Jeep J-3000 Civilian Cab. I am building from the frame up. Chevy 454 power built for high torque @ low rpms, and a pretty flat torque curve, 4.10 ratio in a D-60 front, and D-70 rear both from an 82 Dually. Yes I am keeping it a dually. Disc brakes in the front, and keep the huge drums on the rear. Tires so far are planned to be 9.00x16's which are 36 to 37" tall.

As the previous posts mention, I am still up in the air about Transmission and T-Case. Maybe the 205/203 from either Hi Impact or Off Road Design, or the Atlas 4 speed. I am wanting a very deep low crawl, and still have a road rpm in OD of about 1700 rpm @ 65mph.
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Old 10-25-2012, 11:25 AM   #11
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You mite want to do the math on your Overdrive gear/ring gear/tire size to rpm.
Chevy nv4500 are .750 od and dodge are.730 OD final gear.
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Old 10-25-2012, 11:50 AM   #12
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He does?? Looks like he is pretty close to what he wants.. With 37's he will be at roughly 1767 rpm.. 36's he is at 1816...
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Old 10-25-2012, 01:43 PM   #13
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Big4x4ride, ya that is what I got using a 27% OD.

I see you are using the D-300 with 4:1 How's that working out for ya? I could prolly get along for my use ok at 4:1 and save some cash. I see all kinds of stuff written up on them, but never asked anyone who is using one how they like it.

Still nobody have anything on a Ranger OD unit? Sure would be nice to use one of those and get the 8 speeds forward. I just don't know if it will hold up. Advance does the Atlas T-Cases too, are they really tough like they advertise them to be? If they are, then maybe I can take their word on the Ranger OD unit. I might have to start a thread with the Ranger OD in the heading.. Comments?

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Old 10-25-2012, 02:26 PM   #14
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My Dana 300 is great, but for what I have in it I could have bought an Atlas. I would say atlas for sure if your spending the $$$, they are very very durable, and a ton lighter than the 203/205..
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Old 10-25-2012, 03:03 PM   #15
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A 203/205 is 4:1 also.

Per the ole googler, the ranger is over $1500..certainly not cheap.

Why do you have to buy a brand new top of the line 4l80?

Why not find one out of a wrecked truck, get the stand alone comp and run it?


Hell, why not run an Allison with a stand alone comp?








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Old 10-25-2012, 04:30 PM   #16
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allison t1000 should work great from a chevy diesel
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Old 10-25-2012, 09:21 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Big4x4ride View Post
My Dana 300 is great, but for what I have in it I could have bought an Atlas. I would say atlas for sure if your spending the $$$, they are very very durable, and a ton lighter than the 203/205..
Ya I priced a salvage yard 300, and a CL 300, then a rebuild, and the 4:1 conversion, and it does get expensive. The doubler isn't cheap either, they are as much as an Atlas. CRAZY.. Unless you build it yourself. Never tackled one, and not sure I want to do it now for my own rebuild.

No, I don't have to go with a new 4L80, but they still are not cheap.
The $5500 bid for the 4L80 came down after I told the guy what my intended use was, then he just went nutz and was wanting to build me a transmission that I could probably take to the moon. Then his last comment was this, "Dude this is the minimum transmission I would recommend building for you"

The Allison isn't cheap either. They still aren't geared as low as I would like either. I have had a few auto 4x4's and I like them in general. It is just this truck is being built to be a workhorse. The SM 465 is very strong and durable. The Ranger ruins 1500 with shipping, but it just seems that it expands the capability of the truck. I just wish I could find someone with 1st hand experience with one.

I called Advance Adapters today, and they assured me they have seen no failures on even high torque engines. Can I believe it? I just don't know, they build them, and sell them. I guess since they also build the Atlas it is probably a good unit.

So, 1500 plus 950 for a rebuilt SM465, 200 for the clutch they recommend, and I got $2650 in it. Some places are trying to charge about this for a rebuilt NV4500.

There is a cheaper option, using the Spicer 3053A, and I found a bell a conversion plate, and a flywheel. BUT! I am still trying to find out about the 454 using the external balanced flywheel. I have always thought that all flywheels are balanced, but is the 454 flywheel off balanced to balance the engine? Anybody got the inside info on the internal and external balanced 454's?

The amount of research that has gone into this choice has been nutz. My first thought was to use a 700R4. Then one opinion after another has come to me, and then I was thinking 4L80, as it was suggested. I finally got so frustrated with the differing of opinions by folks on another forum, and then the transmission shops all claiming one thing or another, and like I said, I had one shop locally swears a 700R4 built properly, will withstand anything. His price was pretty cheap too, as only $995. Hell if I was just tooling around town, or even wheelin in TX and OK, I'd probably jump on it. But I am planning on going some places where there isn't anyplace to get much of anything fixed, so it has got to stout, and reliable.
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Old 10-25-2012, 09:42 PM   #18
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I think you are over thinking this honestly. There are hundreds, even thousands of vehicles making more power than your setup with off the shelf transmissions. An nv4500 is more than capable of what you are doing, as is a 4l80e, and are numerous other transmissions.. They used th400s in rigs hauling and weighing as much and more than your setup. Hell dodge even used 727s for hauling trucks.. I just think you are over thinking all of this.
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Old 10-26-2012, 12:05 AM   #19
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Maybe so

That's the problem, too many choices and each with it's own drawback. Yes as far as power goes you are right. A TH400 is awesome, but no OD. When you get in OD for longer periods at lower RPM's is where the transmissions get torn up, which is causing my concern. Any of the transmissions seem to be able to handle higher power, higher revs with ease. OD is the weak link. So, this application is taking a hell of a lot more thought. I had one transmission shop tell me not to go with an auto, and that's all they work on, he said all OD gears on GM transmissions won't handle over 4500# continuous for extended periods.
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Old 10-26-2012, 08:19 AM   #20
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Sounds like you have your mind made up, run the 465 and splitter. AA has their $h!t together, imo if they say it will work why doubt them?


I would branch out to other online resources if you are looking for first hand experience - since most on a 4x4 site are gearing down, not up. Check the diesel sites, in most normal cases if it can handle the torque of a diesel, it will laugh at a gasser.








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Old 10-26-2012, 08:27 AM   #21
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Aren't there a couple other options, there used to be a Saturn unit, and the gear vendors unit as well. Thought one was referred to as a brown box. Try to get with fsjeeper on here, he has/had 1 of these units of some sort.
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Old 10-26-2012, 08:43 AM   #22
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There are several options, but so far the only comparison has been the ranger to 5k od autos or weak nv4500's.





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Old 10-27-2012, 07:33 AM   #23
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Thanks guys, I appreciate all your input. No, my mind isn't made up on exactly what to use yet. It is getting narrowed down a lot though. I feel that manual is going to be the best route. I had forgotten about Gear Vendors, and have never heard about the brown box. No, I won't doubt AA now since I have gotten some good feedback. I haven't done any building on any trucks since my 64 Chevy 3/4 ton a long time ago, and there is a hell of a lot that has changed, and I haven't kept up with all the tech through the years. If you guys have any suggestions on other manual combo's, let me know. I am still trying to find out what the deal is with the internal/external balance thing. There are a few medium duty truck trans out there with super low crawls, and OD.
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Old 10-27-2012, 05:40 PM   #24
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This is what I was referring to as brown box, wasnt exactly sure of real name.

http://www.texas4x4.org/sale-24/spic...mission-36420/

As far as I am aware, he still has it. It's in victoria, but he lives in Houston, Real knowlegeable guy, and very good to deal with.
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Old 10-27-2012, 09:30 PM   #25
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not trying to convince you to go auto but i had a 03 gmc 3/4 ton 4x4 with the 4l80e and a tuned 6.0. the 6.0 after the tune was dynoed at 330 hp and something like 385 torque to the rear wheels and i regularly drug a 15,000# trailer all over the u.s. climbed mountains on the east and west coast in 3rd gear all day no problems even up 6% grades and ran the flat land without searching for gears. only reason i got rid of that truck was i couldn't keep motor mounts in it and everytime i hit the beach the push button transfer case would lock me out of 4 hi
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