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Old 05-07-2006, 08:01 PM   #1
 
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FOR SALE Question?

A guy came by and bought a truck. he said this is what he was looking for loaded it on a trailer drove it 3 hour and calls and said he wants his money back because its not what he was looking for. i need some feed back. the truck was sold as is. thanks
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Old 05-07-2006, 08:08 PM   #2
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Did he say WHY it wasn't what he was looking for?
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Old 05-07-2006, 08:14 PM   #3
 
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too bad, he should have figured that out before he bought it.

This aint wal-mart.
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Old 05-07-2006, 08:16 PM   #4
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could of ran over somebody or robbed a bank in it for all you know....sold as is..too bad..L
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Old 05-07-2006, 08:29 PM   #5
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I agree totally. Once you sell something or trade something, it is ALWAYS as is.

Savage... I wouldn't worry, there are always big cry babies out there that think they are not getting the fair end of something.....

If he took the time to load it up and drive of with it then it looks like he owns it now and can resale it if he really does not like it.....

ontherun has a very good point as well.....
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Old 05-07-2006, 09:53 PM   #6
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As long as you were truthful in what you told him about it, I dont see a problem. Tell him to go eat a big one.
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Old 05-07-2006, 11:24 PM   #7
 
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thanks for all the feed back thats what i though also. it took us almost 2 hour to load onto the trailer since it didnt run and i kept asking him if this is what he was looking for and he replied yes.
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Old 05-08-2006, 01:35 AM   #8
 
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Cool don't forget re-stocking charge

You spent a lot of time loading (handling charges), and be sure he didn't rob good parts and replace with junk. You can not take the guy at his word. Be careful, very careful. Sounds like a crook to me, but then I know NOTHING. No way should he get all of the money back. No way do you owe him from my angle.
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Old 05-08-2006, 07:17 AM   #9
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If you look over it and nothing has changed, tell him he can bring the truck back, but you will keep 500.00 for your trouble and possible missed sale to someone else.
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Old 05-08-2006, 07:18 AM   #10
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Was this a "local sale", or did he buy it thru eBay?
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Old 05-08-2006, 09:52 AM   #11
 
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local sale he walk around it for two hours?
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Old 05-08-2006, 10:14 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by savage
local sale he walk around it for two hours?
If he studied/walked around it for over 30 minutes he knew exactly what he was getting!!!!
When he got home, either someone layed into his ***** real good or he started feeling like he might have made a bad decision and now wanted out of it!!!
Either way If i where you i'd just tell him, look man you made the decision to buy it good or bad so live with it!!!! If that doesn't work you can always say
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Old 05-08-2006, 10:41 AM   #13
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Old 05-08-2006, 12:20 PM   #14
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Yep, tell him its his baby & has been since he drove off your property.

Reason I asked about eBay was becuz you would have been more likely to have needed an attorney. There are eBay scam-buyers (for lack of a better phrase) who do crap like that to try & screw people outta money.
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Old 05-08-2006, 07:36 PM   #15
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sounds like he has a truck he needs to sell and recoupe his lose if he is now unhappy.
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Old 05-08-2006, 10:27 PM   #16
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Here's the deal, I posted a wanted ad for a buddy that was looking for a HP Ford 60 axle. Savage sent me a PM saying he had one, I forwarded the message to my buddy. My buddy drives down to get the truck which was represented over the phone and on the "bill of sale" as a '79 w/ high pinion front 60.

Apparently it was raining when he got there so he didn't look at it closely enough, gets home and finds out it's a LOW pinion, closed knuckle, '74 model truck, not at all what my buddy was looking for.

My ad specifically stated "high pinion kingpin only", so I believe a refund is in order since the truck was misrepresented, not necessarily on purpose, but misrepresented just the same. Luis is a very good friend of mine and would never rip anyone off. He's spent the last 2 years dumping $$ into his Rubicon and wants to start running with the big boys, but is kinda jumping in w/ both feet and isn't at all familiar w/ the different varieties of front 60's, so he asked for my help locating one.

Here's a the link to my ad in case you want to check it out:
http://www.texas4x4.org/showthread.php?t=10107
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Last edited by Glenn; 05-08-2006 at 10:34 PM..
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Old 05-08-2006, 10:41 PM   #17
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Savage, why did you edit your message yesterday? What did it say before you edited it?

I know Glenn and I know he wouldn't pull a fast one on someone, his friend thought he was getting High pinion kingpin only.

Me personally I would make it right, but that has to be up to you because unfortunally a sale is a sale, I just couldn't sleep at night knowing someone is unhappy with a sale I did.
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Old 05-09-2006, 06:08 AM   #18
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Even before I read Glenn's post, I was thinking to myself - is this buyer someone we "know" from the TX4x4 community? If it is, then sometimes you make it right even if you don't have to. Bringing disputes like this to the board rarely reflects well on either party.

So, let's explore this for a moment. Let's take both possible scenarios.

1. Nothing was misrepresented about the nature of the axle. It is what it is and caveat emptor (buyer beware). Well, that's probably a situation in which the seller does not have to remedy the situation. In a used car/used parts market, the consumer has the responsibility to educate himself. We've certainly all seen it the other way - where a smart buyer "steals" a bargain off an ignorant seller and the buyer will rightly get congratulated for a smart deal.

In that scenario, you have two questions: What must you do and what should you do. Must you refund the guy's money? Probably not in the legal sense. Although, he could certainly argue there was not a meeting of the minds and he did not get the benefit of his bargain. How about "should"? Should you make it right? That's a moral decision - I think most people would try to make it right because a long term friend is always more valuable than a short-term dollar.

2. Scenario two is one in which we assume Glenn's version is true and, either through ignorance or whatever reason, the nature of the axle which was the point of the sale was misrepresented. In that scenario, I think not only should you make it right, but you probably would be required to do so if the "case" were in Court. If the nature of the goods bought has been misrepresented, even if unintentionally, then the buyer did not receive the benefit of their bargain and detrimentally relied upon information given by the seller, who is in a position to have superior knowledge about the product.

As you can see by our logic exercise here, most roads lead to, "make it right."
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Old 05-09-2006, 06:54 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenn
but is kinda jumping in w/ both feet and isn't at all familiar w/ the different varieties of front 60's,
If you don't know what you're doing, then its pretty stupid to go buy something without taking someone with you that does know.

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Originally Posted by Savage
it took us almost 2 hour to load onto the trailer since it didnt run and i kept asking him if this is what he was looking for and he replied yes.
Personally I'd refund his money, but not all of it. It would be the right thing to do since its not what he was looking for, but it all could have been avoided had he done a little research or taken a knowledgeable person along with him.

Unless you were just trying to screw him over.... but hopefully the members here aren't like that.
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Old 05-09-2006, 07:36 AM   #20
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Whole different story if the sale was misrepresented!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenn
"bill of sale" as a '79 w/ high pinion front 60.
If the bill of sale is listed as a 79 high pinion and you got a 74 closed knuckle obviously the seller pulled a fast one, or he himself knows nothing about axles!!! Either way a refund is in order!!!
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Old 05-09-2006, 08:15 AM   #21
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Hello guys this is Luis (idiot who bought the wrong axle/truck)

Over the phone and on the bill of sale (i have the original) the truck was represented as a 79 F350 That it would just roll onto my trailer and they would help me put it on.

As it stands the Truck is ACTUALLY a 74 F250 VIN verified and parts do as well

I talked to the gentlemen over the phone and asked specifically if it was 79 and if it was HIGH pinion

Having confirmed that it was i proceeded with the deal trusting solely on a persons word.

I borrowed my good friends truck and drove NOT 2 but 3.5 hours to pick the truck up.
Again this is taking a persons word that when i get there i will be looking at a 79 HP F350
And that i wouldn't have spend easily over a $100 on diesel for nothing.

The truck was in the middle of some field out in the middle of no-where
As it has been raining the ENTIRE way i was worried my friends new truck would get stuck in the mud if it started to rain which it seemed it would.

So we hurried to get er done. The truck had actually been sittin for 4 yrs so i had to use my air pump to inflate tires and etc and pulled it in as its not a running truck.

We got the truck on the trailer and tied it down.

Before i left i handed him the bill of sale form, which i had pre-filled with my information and the vehicle information 79 F350 and the seller looked it over and signed.

At this point there was never any doubt in my mind i was buying a 79 THE RIGHT TRUCK

If he had stopped for a second and told me "im not sure, it might be a 77 or 76 or maybe even a 74 o and its actually a F250 not F350"

i would have stopped, gathered my senses, and called my friends and asked what i should look for, and would have realized it was Low Pinion, Drum brake, Closed Knuckle

Savage seemed like a honest good person, i left the ranch believing honestly i had made a friend/contact for the rest of my life someone i would run into on the trials and thank for a good honest experience

Drove my truck back home, got to lookin the next day at what i would need to do to get the axles out and realized ...... I HAD MADE A HUGE HUGE MISTAKE

The truck has not even been taken off the trailer, still has the same tie downs and wires they hooked on.

I called them back up and told them the truck was not a 79, not high pinion, NOT what they had told me, and not what i was looking for.

I told them i would take the loss on the diesel i used to get out there, just wanted my money back

After various phone conversations, seller finalized in a absolute NO ... Not budging 1 inch

So i do realize im to blame as well for not asking for a VIN and Pictures up front so i could verify ...... Thats why i offered to take the loss on the diesel and transport cost.

But u know, i LIKE to take people for their word especially in our Community and will continue 2 do so.

Situation has just showed me that you cant always trust and need to triple check EVERYTHING.


Thats the 100% truth of the situation so the question is this:

IS the BURDEN on the SELLER to represent the vehicle CORRECTLY?
And IF EVEN by mistake the vehicle is represented incorrectly is HE not BOTH legally and morally obligated to refund?

thanks for your time and input guys, sorry to bother you with these situations

Luis Landois

P.S in savages defenses i believe HE IS willing to work with me but the truck actually belongs to his brother in law WHO DOES NOT WANT TO BUDGE, None the less what is the (legal and morally) right thing to do?

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Old 05-09-2006, 08:36 AM   #22
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let me clear the fog.

I am the previous owner of said truck. There has been a lot of partial information/misinformation submitted in this forum about the transaction which leads people to the wrong conclusions. Here are the complete actions leading up to the sale.

1. To the best of my knowledge it is a 79 crew cab with 60's. I had no title and the only other way to determine the year was by the tail lights which show it to be a 79 model. This truck had been used previously on a hunting lease until such time it developed a water leak on a freeze plug which is located between the eng & trans at which time (approx 2001) it was towed to where it has sat since, awaiting repairs I never took the time to do. When asked, I NEVER stated it was a 79', I said I'm not sure but the tail lights say it is a 79". I didn't find any other vin #s on the vehicle to confirm or deny.

2. My brother-in-law (savage) is the one who read the ad from glenn looking for a 60 front axle and called me to see if I still had the truck. I said yes & that i would sell it for $1,400 complete. I never personally spoke with the buyer until his arrival where the truck was parked. Although buyer wanted just the front axle, I was willing only to sell the truck complete since I have no use for a truck with no font end. Buyer agreed & made arrangements to pick-up truck after talking down the price to $1,300.

3. May 7, 06 Buyer meets us and we take him to the truck. Buyer did drive through rain from Austin to Del Rio on the way to us but IT WAS NOT RAINING ANYTIME HE WAS LOOKING AT THE TRUCK OR WHILE WE WERE LOADING TRUCK. Buyer & his friend were shown truck and given time to look it over. (we were there about 2 hours total, looking & loading) HE personally looked under the truck at the axles & tranny area as well as the engine bay. I assumed he knew what he was looking for, I sure don't. Nothing was misrepresented or hidden from him. He knew condition of truck and could clearly see any parts it had or didn't have. Whle he was looking at it he was asked several times if it was what he was looking for or if this was gonna work for him (in general conversation). He stated it was & further stated he was happy with it. Just before we loaded it I noticed that the truck had an onboard air system that I had forgotten to remove. I told him I would leave it on for him at no extra cost. We loaded truck, which took about 30 minutes and he paid the $1,300. Just as we were ready to leave HE presented a "Bill of Sale" that HE had made representing the truck as a 1979 ford crew cab. He asked if I would sign it so he would'nt be hassled at the Border Patrol Checkpoint. On the Bill HE printed in BOLD letters that the vehicle was being "SOLD AS-IS". After signing HIS bill of sale we departed the area at which time it began to drizzle very lightly (this must be the rain he was talking about).

4. Later that evening, my Brother-in-law called me to say the buyer wanted his money back because the truck didn't have dics brakes. This is the first I heard of him wanting disc brakes & I never said it had disc brakes so I said no returns. Then the caller kept calling my b-i-l asking for a return of his money stating the bill of sale (which he made) says it is a 79' but it isn't. I still am not sure what year the truck is but that is irrevelant at this time. HE made the bill of sale & HE put it down as a 79'. He had plenty of time to look it over (2 hours) & decide to buy it or not. He had the option of bringing someone who knew what to look for or bring some sort of parts diagram to confirm. I had no idea exactly what he wanted, I presented the truck & let him make up his mind if he wanted it or not. During the transaction he NEVER said anything about a high pinion axle. In this forum is the 1st I have heard about it. I even had the common decency to bring the price down $100, help load it, which was a ***** since he didn't bring anything to pull it onto the trailer with, and I threw in the on-board air system instead of removing it. I think I have conducted myself in good faith & I will sleep just fine at night. If he is unhappy with HIS buy, He can easily part-out the truck for much more than what he paid & chalk it up as a learning experience.

On a side note: I used part of the sale money to buy my own modification, a USED 8.8 to put into my jeep. I had the same basic problem, when I put the axle in I discovered the right shaft was bent. I didn't cry about it I just got a new shaft and made the change myself. Buyer beware.
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Old 05-09-2006, 09:03 AM   #23
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Buck Hunter,

I understand what your saying, but the fact remains that to some extent or another the truck was misrepresented. If you had advertised a '74 F350 I seriously doubt that anyone would have paid the kind of money you asked, instead you represented it as a '79 because of the style of taillights and assumed it had a desirable HP 60 front and both parties were happy to enter into an agreement for $1300.

Now, knowing what we all know, the "gentlemanly" thing to do would be to let him bring the truck you give the $$ back, and we all just go down the road, no harm no foul. We are all on the same side here, building bigger and better rigs to enjoy our sport, and we need to watch out for each other. You'll find that the 4x4 community is very close knit, you may keep that in mind in your future dealings.
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Old 05-09-2006, 09:23 AM   #24
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On a side note: I used part of the sale money to buy my own modification, a USED 8.8 to put into my jeep. I had the same basic problem, when I put the axle in I discovered the right shaft was bent. I didn't cry about it I just got a new shaft and made the change myself. Buyer beware.

Basically what he's saying here is he can't refund your money b/c he has already spent it!!!
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Old 05-09-2006, 10:45 AM   #25
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Buck Hunter,

Please read the thread carefully. To begin with the WANT ad the Glenn posted was very very specific, where the requirements not clear? High Pinion Dana 60 ?

http://www.texas4x4.org/showthread.php?t=10107

The entire time i was there you where trying to hurry me. since u had your other project pending the sale.

Whether or not i had time to look at it is irrelevant, and yes unfortunatly i did not know what i was looking at. BUT like i said before you where selling me a 79 truck and the BURDEN is not on me to verify this. Legally the BURDEN is on you to KNOW what you are selling and represent it truthfully to your seller

I asked the contact person on the phone VERY VERY specifically HIGH PINION 79 F350.

Every question i asked was answered untruthfully.
Year 79 vs 74 Model F350 vs F250
I asked if it was 351 modified (which should be for 79) you said YES
VIN confirms it to be a 360 for a 74

I realize questions where answered to the best of your knowledge, but that does not make it ok
Well call this (unintentional misrepresentation) none the less its still misrepresentated CORRECT?

So did you or did you not sign the Bill of Sale ? If you where not sure about the year why didnt you scratch it out or mention it to me? Does not matter who wrote it up. You signed it correct? Making it a legal binding agreement that what was on the paper was correct?

Sure i could maybe make some of the money back, but why should that be my problem?

AS-IS sale is in reference to the asthetic and mechanical condition of a used-car contract.
Meaning the car is sold as-is with no warranty and no gaurantee of working condition.

It does not mean you can sell a FORD as a DODGE because it was AS-IS.
Or a F250 as a F350. Or a 74 as a 79

Representation of the used vehicle is the crutial element in this problem. And there is a HUGE HUGE difference between a 74 truck and a 79 truck. So much so that it renders it useless in regards to the intentions expressed in the WANT ADD.

Cant i just tow the truck back to the field, and you hand me back the money?

You loose a couple hours of your time for the unintentional misrepresentation.

I loose some transportation costs and i loose the same time you did X 5

and we call it a day no hard feelings no legal problems

Im not a bad person screwing anyone, i even gave you guys my number and offered to show you around and introduce you to my austin-san antonio offroading crowd.
AKA making friends

Is the 1300 really more important than the above?

LLL
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