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crawl ratio



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Old 09-15-2007, 03:47 PM   #1
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crawl ratio

i keeping with the build direction thread and not to train wreck it (at least not any worse lol), i was wondering what crawl ratio everyone is running and what they think would be optimum?

i have a build i am working on that would give me 115:1 in low and 62:1 in my second low.

also, do you really think that the auto adds a 2X factor to the crawl ratio?

any thoughts on this?
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Old 09-15-2007, 05:18 PM   #2
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My old one was 66:1 and was to fast to crawl technical trails but now its 235:1 and I have to drive in second or third.
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Old 09-15-2007, 05:28 PM   #3
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LOW LOW is 180 to 1 LOW in about 86 to 1. I only use the 180 out at Krocks or Trees going down hill I love my Stupid low but I only REALLY needed it a few times but it was great to have when I needed it ... dont know bout the auto thing I got a SM420
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Old 09-15-2007, 06:31 PM   #4
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89 to 1 in low low....I like it. I can't say how it compares to everyone else. But, with standard tranny it works for me. Compression braking is great...I also have to use 2nd or 3rd gear to go a little faster. Giving it gas to go down hill just isn't right.LOL
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Old 09-15-2007, 07:23 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by fourwheelerjeff View Post
also, do you really think that the auto adds a 2X factor to the crawl ratio?
not unless you drive with your foot on the brake all the time.
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Old 09-15-2007, 08:14 PM   #6
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IMO the auto is the only way to go. Even if your running a 205 with 1.93:1.

The auto allows you to run as fast or slow as you want to. Just give it the gas and go or let off and go slow. Plus when you are sittin' nose up on a incline having to deal with a clutch pedal totaly brings the SUCK! (been there done that with a stick I learned and moved to what is better)

As far as going down that is what breaks are for DUH.
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Old 09-15-2007, 10:18 PM   #7
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Mine now is 262 to 1. With a 5 speed.It is handy to have sometimes. You will not be in it all the time but nice to have when you need it. JJ
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Old 09-15-2007, 11:52 PM   #8
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ok, my two cents on crawl ratio.....
AUTO VS STANDARD. I don't think the auto adds 2x factor, but it does allow you to very the crawl speed...Crawl speed is what most are after and not only the torque multiplication. In a auto you use the breaks and and can control your crawl speed. In a standard you want a lower crawl speed to do the more technical stuff without slipping the clutch or using the brakes and you want the torque mulitplication to be able to come to obstical and either spin the tires or go forward. Both have advantages and it comes down to personal preforence.
The crawl ratio that will accomplish those goals depends on weight, tire size and motor. A big block will likey never need to be pushed to 1500 rpm to spin the tires where as a 4 banger may like to live in the 2500 to 3000 rpm range and need twice the crawl ratio.
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Old 09-16-2007, 09:11 AM   #9
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ok, my two cents on crawl ratio.....
AUTO VS STANDARD. I don't think the auto adds 2x factor, but it does allow you to very the crawl speed...Crawl speed is what most are after and not only the torque multiplication. In a auto you use the breaks and and can control your crawl speed. In a standard you want a lower crawl speed to do the more technical stuff without slipping the clutch or using the brakes and you want the torque mulitplication to be able to come to obstical and either spin the tires or go forward. Both have advantages and it comes down to personal preforence.
The crawl ratio that will accomplish those goals depends on weight, tire size and motor. A big block will likey never need to be pushed to 1500 rpm to spin the tires where as a 4 banger may like to live in the 2500 to 3000 rpm range and need twice the crawl ratio.
very true
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Old 09-16-2007, 09:34 AM   #10
 
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The torque converter effect.........ok so saying it actually doubles first gear isn't technically correct....it does however multiply the effective torque transfer(normally 2 or 2.5 to1 times) from the motor to the transmission during the initial stages of throttle
input off idle and thru the lower rpm band, but can fade as you approach the 1800/2000 rpm mark, or later upon reaching TC lock-up....of course, no two automatics are exactly the same, so the result may vary from trans to trans.....the effect is a result of the "mechanical-to-fluid-to-mechanical" action taking place inside the TC...as you may or may not know, the TC is not one solid chunk, but has moving internals encased in a shell....the case(shell) is bolted directly to the flywheel, and the input shaft of the trans goes thru the rearward portion of the TC...basically, the TC is a pump-but a dual action kind of pump...the TC shares fluid from the trans that is pumped into the outer portion of the case(on the engine side) which houses the turbine(kinda like a jet motor,lots of fins or blades set at a certain pitch/angle)..the impeller(another fan-like part, but with different angles on it's blades) is on the otherside pumping the fluid that direction...inbetween them is the stator, which redirects the fluid coming off the center of the turbine, so, the faster the turbine spins, the faster the impeller spins and VIOLA' you get more torque transfer from engine to transmission..the stator redirects the fluid into the same flow as the engine is rotating the converter pump and this redirection of fluid results in more torque AND more acceleration...now, when the turbine spins slower, so does the impeller and this creates HEAT, which too much off can result in damage to the TC and probably the engine/trans,too....The heat is generated by the slippage between turbine and impeller, SO, a lock-up type converter must be used to eliminate that slipping, which decreases the heat AND improves MPG...most lock-up units have a torque ratio of 1:1 for the lock-up to occur, usually in top/final gear....then there are all the other aspects like stall, stall speed, TC's that have clutches inside, etc,etc..

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Old 09-16-2007, 09:57 AM   #11
 
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Your crawl ratio(gear dictated) is influenced by the available torque, but not completely governed by it-shifting gears changes the available torque just as terrian/traction changes can...max torque input from a big block engine comes at much lower rpm's that a small block/small displacement motor-BUT, the larger engine is heavier, and the torque usually drops off rather sharply as the upper limits of rpm's are reached-most old school BB's had a redline around 6500 rpm's...newer ones can get higher(remember, we are not talking full tilt race stuff here)
With a smaller displacement engine you do have to rev it higher to reach the max torque output, but the smaller rotating assemblies and lighter wieght/mass allow for this without much cause for concern-to a limit obviously...the larger the bore/shorter the stroke, the lower the rpm max output AND the lower the max safe rpm speed.....small bore/longer stroke means higher rpm max output AND higher safe rpm speed..of, course, you have the inbetweens, like the old IH v-8's, Jeep i-6's, etc that fall somewhere in the middle, but often favor the torquey low rpm side...it would ultimately be good to look at the torque curve of a given motor, because a sharp bump in torque, like from a BB Chevy at off idle/low rpms can be a violent hit on the drivetrain where there is a high traction situation..of course, nobody really wants to try navigating the rocks with the engine ramped up to 4000 rpm either.......tough call......I think I would shoot for one of those that fell in the middle, that way,, what ever the motor couldn't dish, I could squeeze out of my gearing....that is the idea, right?
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Old 09-17-2007, 05:38 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fourwheelerjeff View Post
i keeping with the build direction thread and not to train wreck it (at least not any worse lol), i was wondering what crawl ratio everyone is running and what they think would be optimum?

i have a build i am working on that would give me 115:1 in low and 62:1 in my second low.

also, do you really think that the auto adds a 2X factor to the crawl ratio?

any thoughts on this?
to me options are your best bet for different terrain. There's some really good read on ck5 on the auto adding the 2X factor where Greg72 and 4x4high explain it in depth. Try a search on it, if you can't find it, I'll poke around for ya.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeromy View Post
The crawl ratio that will accomplish those goals depends on weight, tire size and motor. A big block will likey never need to be pushed to 1500 rpm to spin the tires where as a 4 banger may like to live in the 2500 to 3000 rpm range and need twice the crawl ratio.
this IS true.




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Old 09-17-2007, 10:31 PM   #13
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I have had two experiences with automatics that come to mind right off the bat. Now take into consideration I do not know what happened to either of these trannys but this is what I saw. There was a rig out a Katemcy last year at the summer run. He was trying to get up this hill and every time he would get near vertical the tranny would start sl9ipping to a point that it would no longer pull and the smoke would start rolling out of it. Then it would barley back up. On the other a friend who has a huge rig with a small block, auto, doubler, 52 inch michelins and rockwells was on a really tough trail at Clayton Ok called Green Mamba EXTENSION. (Not the easy part) had the forward clutches or something go out. By the time we got him out of there it we had broken a planetary gear in a 15K ramsey and burnt up the motors on two 8274 winches. Now don't get me wrong the last rig is super heavy but I think I will stay with my bolt action.
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Old 09-17-2007, 10:35 PM   #14
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it's been said many times, but heat kills an auto tranny quicker than a fat kid eating a twinkie. i think many people underestimate how evil heat can sneak up on you and bite you in the ***...no matter if it's a 700R4 or a TH400.
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Old 09-18-2007, 12:29 PM   #15
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it's been said many times, but heat kills an auto tranny quicker than a fat kid eating a twinkie. i think many people underestimate how evil heat can sneak up on you and bite you in the ***...no matter if it's a 700R4 or a TH400.
So very, very, very true.
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Old 09-18-2007, 12:40 PM   #16
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that is where deeper gears come into play with the auto. the deeper you go with the gears the less the TC has to slip to get you up and over or start spinning. However to Deep of gears can be a PITA once the TC is close to 1:1. And then there is the whole not being able to stop
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Old 09-18-2007, 07:25 PM   #17
 
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...go to another forum, he says, read what this other guy wrote, ...and only after I presented some good info, INSTEAD of trash, does 72Blazer insist on starting more drama...Keep at it fella, as you are only making yourself look foolish..I won't go on another rant, but I will say that you have a lot of nerve to act like this towards someone you don't even know...give it a rest, at least for the sake of this forum..if I am wrong, PROVE ME WRONG.....I would much rather see you on the trail to discuss these items than have to see your smartass remarks after every post I make...give it a rest, at least for the sake of the forum....

On the track of the thread, I have used the old "trick" of slightly overfilling my autotrans rigs ATF level to help combat the high angle/slippage issue...
This has worked well for me, but caution must be advised, as too much fluid can cause more problems than it solves...The better solution is a deeper, high capacity pan, but this obviously can be a costly part...unless you can fab one up....
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Old 09-18-2007, 08:50 PM   #18
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On the track of the thread, I have used the old "trick" of slightly overfilling my autotrans rigs ATF level to help combat the high angle/slippage issue...
This has worked well for me, but caution must be advised, as too much fluid can cause more problems than it solves...
I run about 1/2 qt overfull (at fully heated) and have no problems that I know of. The main problem that could occur is foaming on the fluid. I guess since I'm not driving on the road it doesn't foam up. I also have 2 coolers on it.
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Old 09-18-2007, 08:59 PM   #19
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...go to another forum, he says, read what this other guy wrote, ...and only after I presented some good info, INSTEAD of trash, does 72Blazer insist on starting more drama...Keep at it fella, as you are only making yourself look foolish..I won't go on another rant, but I will say that you have a lot of nerve to act like this towards someone you don't even know...give it a rest, at least for the sake of this forum..if I am wrong, PROVE ME WRONG.....I would much rather see you on the trail to discuss these items than have to see your smartass remarks after every post I make...give it a rest, at least for the sake of the forum....
lol no need to get butt hurt poser noob. and it looks like you just went on another rant...so who's foolish? You don't have to start crying & take these forums SO serious. Lighten up Mr. Rubicon.
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Old 09-18-2007, 09:08 PM   #20
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poser noob....so who's foolish?


Poser noob was wheelin when you were still playin' with hot wheels......
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Old 09-18-2007, 09:11 PM   #21
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Old 09-18-2007, 09:30 PM   #22
 
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lol no need to get butt hurt poser noob. You don't have to start crying & take these forums SO serious. Lighten up Mr. Rubicon.
Some of take our hobby/past-time/side business/sport/LIFESTYLE very seriously....as do we take serious the exchange of info on this forum..I am not crying, nor did I rant, I requested that you stay with the program...act your age, not like a highschool dropout that has nothing better to do than provoke people..I enjoy the lighhearted ribbing and even trash talk from anyone who ultimately means well, but do not abide insolent people who have everything to prove to everyone and no real means or skill to do so...

....Trannycoolers are a great way to combat heat as well as add capacity to you trans....Something Jeromy made mention of was weight---bear in mind, the heavier the rig(think about the UNsprung weight, axles,wheels,tires) the greater the weight transfer when making those really steep acents....I talked to a friend about coming up with some adjustable front limiting straps for my front axle(something better than ratchetstraps or tiedowns)to help fight the unloading of my RE radius arm style CA's on steep climbs...we are working on it.....point is, all the gear reduction/torque multiplication in the world won't help if you can't get it to the ground..
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Old 09-18-2007, 09:40 PM   #23
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ok, my bad for taking it too far for ya. But how about a bracket for the limiting strap with different mounting positions that you can easily adjust by removing the bolt and putting it in another position?
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Old 09-18-2007, 10:05 PM   #24
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I talked to a friend about coming up with some adjustable front limiting straps for my front axle(something better than ratchetstraps or tiedowns)to help fight the unloading of my RE radius arm style CA's on steep climbs
isn't that the same as putting the winch on the front axle????
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Old 09-18-2007, 10:14 PM   #25
 
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I really don't want to have to use my winch like that as the wire rope doesn't lend itself well to being yanked on, nor does my fairlead...72Blazer, thank you, and I mean that.....the idea we had is simular to what you are suggesting...a bracket on the frame, one on the axle with the strap inbetween...we played with the idea of bolts, but I want some way to make adjustments/changes kinda "on the fly", not while in motion, but without having to break out the wrenches everytime I want to change it....
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