Texas 4x4 Forum banner

Biodiesel......Whats your opinion???

6K views 47 replies 15 participants last post by  mahana79 
#1 ·
Hey guys I have been reading alot recently about biodiesel and ways to process Waste Vegi Oil to make it. Does anyone hear have any experience with b-diesel that they could send me way, pos or neg? Like I said, I have been reading quite a bit as well as chat with the energy department head at A&M about it and am starting to think it doesnt sound like such a bad idea since gas prices have been soaring lately. The prof didnt really have a whole lot to say about it, just friend of a friend types of stories so I didnt think to hard on it. Let me know what you guys think about it.

Regards,
Remington
 
#2 ·
watch the show truck they did a episode on your question. also check out their site and you can get the number and addy to the place that sells that kit to do it yourself. If i was running diesel i would do this but just like everything that is too good to be true the goverment will find a way to make illegal like moonshine.

i swear when i get my camaro running i am making moonshine to run the car on at the track!!!!
 
#3 ·
i saw that show and it tells you where to buy a very expensive kit to make Bio yourself but it will take a long time to break even on the cost of that set up. Then Stacy basically reads the instruction book on the kit and yes briefly explains how the set up works. I am tiring to figure out how to make my own set up, save some money yet still come up with a good product. Im hoping with the fuel cost as high as they are, people will figure out a way in which to make bio with a relatively low cost setup.
 
#4 ·
bigblazer8484 said:
I am tiring to figure out how to make my own set up, save some money yet still come up with a good product. Im hoping with the fuel cost as high as they are, people will figure out a way in which to make bio with a relatively low cost setup.
There are some good links in this thread.
http://www.austink5.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=2245&start=0
 
#6 ·
yeah I have been surfing all the forums checking out what people have to say about it, and quite a few people are using it without regret, especially around corn country. Yeah I saw the episode on trucks where they showed the biodiesel still and all the little bells and whistles, and yeah $3k is a bit ridiculous for a bottom of the line still. But I looked into it more, and basically all it is, is a few containers to mix and "wash" the biodiesel and a fountain pump to move it around from container to container and into a steel drum when completed. It is very simple once you break it down and think about it. And when making it yourself, I figured and have been told that after everything you need to use to produce it, you will end up with a high quality biodiesel that costs $.70/gallon or less. So I imagine with a home still you can break even fairly quickly since I have seen quite a few made with brand new off the shelf parts from home depot, lowes, and harbor freight, and end up costing around $350.00 total for everything. There are people that have been using b-diesel in their tractors and trucks for ages, and its been the people living in corn country because they have soo much of it. Also people in the bahamas alot of times use it because it cost so much to import gas, and also you can make it from palm oil as well. Well enough rambling, is there anyone around the College Station area that would like some cheap fuel???? I am going to be making my own biodiesel still setup within the next month or so, but will not be purchasing a cummins for another 4 months, so I figured I could atleast put the stuff I make to good use.

Remington
 
#8 ·
Bio Diesel

Hey guys, I have been looking at this as well. I drive a 2003 Powerstroke about 37k miles per year and even though its a company truck, I keep my eyes peeled on ways to save a buck.

A few things I did learn. Using the still from the Trucks! show it takes about 3 or 4 gallons of Methanol added into the cooking oil to do the process. Methanol ain't cheap.

Second, manufacturers so far are only endorsing a B5 mix. That means 5% Biodieseal and the remainder petroleum based. There are also issues with non synthetic hoses (pre-94) that the oil turns to sponge.

Do a search on Yahoo and you can get all kinds of info. Also, go to www.wnbiodiesel.com which is Willie Nelson's Biodiesel. They are trying to take biodiesel mainstream.

If you listen to all the talk, the first diesel was actually designed to run on peanut oil by Rudolf Diesel in Germany back in the late 1800's.

There has to be a way to make this work well this day in age.

RQ
 
#9 ·
Well the stills physically are the things that are different. The process is still the same if you want it to be quality biodiesel. The methanol is just part of the cleaning process, you put a mixture of 20% meth and some lye. Then glycerin forms and sinks to the bottom taking with it detergents and other impurities. Then you wash it again by misting water over the surface gently and over the period of a few hours it will sink to the bottom as well taking the remaining impurities with it, thats the basics of making biodiesel from waste vegi oil. There is more details to the process but will leave that for you guys to read up on. Yeah I am almost done making my still, just need to make a trip to the local recycling company to pickup some 55 gallon steel drums and I will be done, with close to if not under $100 dollars spent in material. Now I just need a diesel truck to run it in, haha.

Remington
 
#10 ·
Bio Diesel

Keep us informed as to how it comes out. Now I know why people up north are still buying up the GM diesels!

Keep in mind there is more just diesel trucks. Very inexpensive test rugs can be had like a VW diesel and an older Mercedes. Even Ford diesels from the early 80's are pretty cheap.

Good luck!

rockonn
 
#11 ·
I did have a quick question I was wondering if anyone knew about. I was curious if propane kits would still work with biodiesel as a catalyst the same way it works with petrodiesel??? Anyone know??

Remington
 
#12 ·
Hey uao85 I am Stationed at Ft. Polk La. but from Houston and in Houston at least once a month normally(family). I would be interested in seeing what you have set up. I just returned from Channelview this past weekend. I will definitly be there for Thanksgiving weekend and not sure about Oct. If you dont mind I would like to catch up with you to see how it works. I read alot on it when I bought my PS but nobody close was giving any good feedback. I have thought about making (I think they call it) an Appleseed plant. If interested email me @ jeremy.ramsey@amedd.army.mil. That would be great. Thanks
 
#13 · (Edited)
I am uncertain as of now how far I will be along by thanksgiving but when I have the system up and running I will definitely let you know and you can come check it out. I am working on a modified appleseed system, but instead of a water heater I am using several modded steel 55 gallon drums. I will post up my pictures as I progress.

Remington
 
#14 ·
I have been working ont his as well. You may notice some of my posts on the AustinK5 forums on this topic.

i am building a Appleseed Processor. Hot water heater and all. Methanol is only small portion of the finished product (about 20%) The Lye (which is a strong Base) is what actually neutralizes the Free Fatty Acids that are in the Vegi oil. Pure vegi oil need anywhere from 3.5 - 5 grams of lye per liter of oil and some very "dirty" waste oils will need upwards of 10 grams per liter. the best way to find the amout of Lye need is to do a titration test on the batch to be processed. Here is a link to explain how and why we do titration tests http://www.biodieselcommunity.org/titratingoil/ It is very handy to do and can prevent you from wasting a complete batch of oil. too much or too little Lye and your batch is gone. I have made small batches of about 15 liters and have been very succesful with them. this is what has led me to making a full scale appleseed setup. I have ran the completed BioD in my Kubota flawlessy. I have gotten the titration down and the washing down. I can get the finished BioD to break emusification with in 2-3 min. telllling me i have a good clean fuel.

i will be happy to entertain any and all questions. i have spoken with 'girl mark" many time and have asked many questions. If you have been looking at the appleseed processor then you probably know who she is.
 
#15 ·
cool

Mahana79 your post was just in time and a good write up. I am doing the same setup as you, water heater etc only I have a few plastic 55 gallon drums I plan to use. Will give you a shout as progress comes.
 
#16 ·
I will use HDPE barrels for the wash parts. My plan is to have the water heater for the main processing and have 3 barrels set up with standpipes for my wash cycles. i have had very good results with doing 3 - 8 hour wash cycles using the bubble wash method. the only problem that i have read about bubblewashing is that by introducing air into the fuel it tends to oxidize sooner so it is not suited well for fuel that will be stored longer than 2-3 weeks. i like it however because of the lower usage of water involved. I need to get some open top metal one to use for oil pickup and for oil storage.
 
#20 ·
Wow I am glad to see that this thread hasnt quite died from when I checked it last. I am sort of at a stand still as of right now, I built a few systems to sell to locals, but other than that I have been holding off since I am working full time and going to school fulltime as well. Kind of cramped for time at the moment, but as soon as things lighten up will be back to making the systems to sell. I will also probably make a system for myself as soon as I pick up another blazer to swap the 4bt into.

Remington
 
#21 ·
Well, sorry it has been so long but i have some updates.

We just got done with a 6,000 mile road trip through the north east. We burned just over 500 gallons of fuel for the entire trip. We did take the Duramax and were toeing the camper. we ran through about 350 gallons of homebrew BioDiesel. I had made some, got some from another guy in Abilene, we also meet up with some guys in Ohio, Nebraska, and Penn. the 150 that i had to buy at the pumps was also B20 so we really ran some sort of BioDiesel for the entire trip.

i have torn my processor down and am rebuilding it and making it Semi-automatic. And before i left i had lined up a really good reliable sorce of WVO. jamminzz i will post some pics of the processor when i get it completed in a couple of weeks.
 
#22 ·
wow

Good news, you seem to be running fine with no problems. I made my 1 st batch to test run on a trip to Lewisville,TX this weekend and it ran fine, no change in mileage, maybe a little power drop. I did have my 1st dealings with the "water in fuel" light and had to stop, kill the engine and open the drain valve maybe a dozen times. Again no big deal and maybe it was not my biodiesel fuel, it could habe been the place I got the rest of the fuel in the tank from. BTW I only ran 5% BD since it was the 1st try. I am using methoxide to free the TFA's and am bubble washing using an aquarium bubbler also. I would be interested to know the changes you are making to your processor and why.
 
#23 ·
the changes i am making are more for convience than function. i am also using Methanol and Sodium Hydroxide. i use an "appleseed" processor and bubble wash. i havent encounter any WIF lights on either vehicle but i run the fuel through external water sep. before putting it in the vehicle.
 
#25 ·
I am

Working on mine as fast as I can. I did sneak in 5% BD in a tank to use this past weekend and other than the water in fuel light there were no problems and yes, I should have run it through the water seperater 1st but, i got in a big hurry to get to Stretch's.
 
#26 ·
useful tax info

check this out!!!!!! Yet another reason i love this great state jamminzz jamminzz

Found this today. While researching what requires taxation and what doesnt. came up with this interesting find. Appears that BioDiesel is exempt fromthe TX state road tax of $.20/gal. You still have to pay the Federal tax of .244/gal. and you still have to pay full tax on any amount of DinoDiesel that you have mixed with the Bio.

TITLE 34PUBLIC FINANCEPART 1COMPTROLLER OF PUBLIC ACCOUNTSCHAPTER 3TAX ADMINISTRATIONSUBCHAPTER SMOTOR FUEL TAXRULE §3.443Diesel Fuel Tax Exemption for Water, Fuel Ethanol, Biodiesel, and Biodiesel Mixtures (Tax Code, §§162.003, 162.204, and 162.227)(a) This rule applies only to motor fuel transactions that take place on or after January 1, 2004. Motor fuel transactions that occur prior to January 1, 2004, will be governed by sections in Texas Administrative Code, Title 34, Part 1, Chapter 3, Subchapter L.
(b) Definitions. The following words and terms, when used in this section, shall have the following meanings, unless the context clearly indicates otherwise.
(1) Water-based diesel fuel--a combination of water, petroleum diesel fuel, emulsifier, and seasonal additives (when necessary) into an emulsion that is suitable or used for the propulsion of a diesel-powered motor vehicle.
(2) Fuel ethanol--alcohol that is made from agricultural products and bioethanol that is made from cellulosic biomass materials.
(3) Biodiesel--a fuel comprised of monoalkyl esters of long chain fatty acids generally derived from vegetable oils or fats, designated B100, and meeting the requirements of ASTM D 6751.
(4) Biodiesel Blend--a blend of biodiesel fuel meeting ASTM D 6751 with petroleum based diesel fuel, designated Bxx where xx represents the volume percentage of biodiesel fuel in the blend. (Example: B20 is 20% biodiesel and 80% petroleum diesel)
(c) Diesel fuel tax exception. The tax imposed on the first sale or use of diesel fuel in this state does not apply to biodiesel or to the volume of water, fuel ethanol, or biodiesel that is blended with taxable diesel fuel, when the finished product is clearly identified on the retail pump, storage tank, and sales invoice as biodiesel or a combination of diesel fuel and water, fuel ethanol, or biodiesel.
(d) Invoice documentation.
(1) The volume of biodiesel must be identified on the sales invoice on each sales transaction, and must continue to be identified on sales invoices until the blended product is sold to the ultimate consumer.
(2) The volume of water, fuel ethanol, or biodiesel that is combined with taxable diesel fuel must be identified on the sales invoice on each sales transaction after the water, fuel ethanol, or biodiesel is first blended with taxable diesel fuel, and must continue to be identified on sales invoices until the blended product is sold to the ultimate consumer.
(3) A sales invoice must:
(A) identify a water-based diesel fuel, ethanol blended diesel fuel, biodiesel, or biodiesel blend by a commonly accepted commercial or industry name for the blended product;
(B) list the volume in gallons (rounded to the nearest whole gallon) or the percentage (rounded to the nearest tenth of one percent) of the blended product that is water, fuel ethanol, or biodiesel;
(C) list the volume in gallons (rounded to the nearest whole gallon) or the percentage (rounded to the nearest tenth of one percent) of the blended product that is taxable diesel fuel. Taxable diesel fuel includes emulsifiers and additives, but not water, fuel ethanol, or biodiesel; and
(D) list the basis of calculating the tax (if a taxable sale) as either $0.20 for each gallon of taxable diesel fuel in the blended product or a ratable tax rate based on the percent of taxable diesel in the blended product. For example, the invoice for the sale of 100 gallons that is a blend of 20% water and 80% taxable diesel fuel may list: state diesel fuel tax of $0.20 per gallon on 80 gallons, or state diesel fuel tax of $0.16 per gallon on 100 gallons of water-based diesel fuel.
(e) Notice required on storage tank and retail pump.
(1) A notice must be posted in a conspicuous location on each storage tank and retail pump from which biodiesel is stored or sold until sold to the ultimate consumer.
(2) A notice must be posted in a conspicuous location on each storage tank and retail pump from the time that the water, fuel ethanol, or biodiesel is first blended with taxable diesel fuel until the blended product is sold to the ultimate consumer, and state the volume percentage of water, fuel ethanol, or biodiesel that is blended with petroleum diesel fuel.
(3) The notice must:
(A) identify the product by the common industry name or commercial name of the blended product,
(B) state the percentage (rounded to the nearest tenth of one percent) of the finished blended product that is water, fuel ethanol, or biodiesel, and
(C) state the percentage (rounded to the nearest tenth percent of one percent) of the finished blended product that is taxable diesel fuel. Taxable diesel fuel includes emulsifiers and additives, but not water, fuel ethanol, or biodiesel.
(f) Refund of diesel tax paid. The ultimate consumer who has paid tax on biodiesel or on the percentage of product that is water, fuel ethanol, or biodiesel may file a claim for refund of taxes that have been paid on biodiesel or on the volume of water, fuel ethanol, or biodiesel that is blended with taxable diesel fuel as provided by §3.432 of this title (relating to Refunds on Gasoline and Diesel Fuel Tax). The refund claim must be supported with purchase invoice(s) as described in subsection (d) of this section. The total volume of diesel fuel that is purchased is presumed to be taxable diesel fuel if the purchase invoice does not meet the requirements of subsection (d) of this section.
(g) Commercial motor vehicles licensed under the International Fuel Tax Agreement (IFTA).
(1) A water-based diesel fuel, ethanol blended diesel fuel, biodiesel, or biodiesel blend that is delivered into the fuel supply tank(s) of a motor vehicle that is licensed under the IFTA is presumed to be used in the jurisdiction in which it was purchased. This presumption may be overcome if it is shown that the total amount of water-based diesel fuel, ethanol blended diesel fuel, biodiesel, or biodiesel blend that is purchased in other IFTA jurisdictions is greater than the amount of total diesel fuel used in other IFTA jurisdictions by all diesel-powered motor vehicles that the IFTA licensee operates.
(2) In calculating the IFTA fleet average mile-per-gallon, the total gallons of diesel fuel that are consumed includes the total gallons of water-based diesel fuel, ethanol blended diesel fuel, biodiesel, or biodiesel blend.
(3) An IFTA licensee who overpays the tax on a water-based diesel fuel, ethanol blended diesel fuel, biodiesel, or biodiesel blend by way of an IFTA tax return may request a refund from the comptroller. A refund claim must be supported with purchase invoice(s) as described in subsection (d) of this section. The total volume of diesel fuel that is purchased is presumed to be taxable diesel fuel if the purchase invoice(s) do not meet the requirements of subsection (d) of this section.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top