[Cody]

if you got a full hydro steering setup can you turn the wheels with the pump not turning??
i know you still can turn with a assist-hydro but not sure on the full setup.

 

[OldGoat]

yes

Stretch and I both have Danfoss full hydro and yes, you can turn the wheels with the engine dead but it is of course hard, just as bad as manual steering. Also you have road feel and stops with full hydro but NO CENTER DETENT position so your steering wheel will never stay centered is the only problem we have. We are both using Howe Quicksteer units to lower the number of turns lock to lock. Overall I am VERY pleased with this setup! I have no experience with the orbital valve only units so maybe somebody else can comment on them.
Mark

 

[4x4Freak]

Some do, some dont. It just depends on the valve.

 

[Stretch]

You can get the danfoss units for about $150. I only have $400 in my whole setup and I think OldGoat has about $450 in his setup. Compare that to $1100 from some of the vendors in the 4x4 world. Create your own crap and save some big cash!!!

 

[ontherun]

you can steer but you have to be moving...and you will have to eat your wheeties because it's a Beech...but you will have enuff to get you to the side of a trail...we have the full howe set up...and you can get a self centering orbital from howe and other places.. its a charlynn unit that will cost about $400.00...that and a double ended ram is the best set up....L

 

[OldGoat]

full hydro

Cody, my total expense was $440 and that was for:
Tractor Supply 8"x2" ram NEW $65
NAPA custom length Hydraulic hoses NEW $50
Howe Quick Steer 2:1 ratio NEW $150
Danfoss orbital valve new, but, eBay item. $100
Borgeson steering coupler NEW $25
Borgeson u-joint steering coupler NEW $50
Misc. steel plate and nuts and bolts. $25
Grand total of $465
My unit will turn the tires with the engine dead and the vehicle stopped but it takes muscle. Not sure what my rig weighs but it is a heavy fullsize and the tires can be turned even when hung up in the rocks with the engine idling. So I think my setup is the best budget unit based on cost and even reliability. I will have to say the double ended ram is cool and does not require a full size tie rod but it is very high in cost. There are a lot of rigs running both setups and doing well with them. You just have to choose which you would like.

 

[Stretch]

Cody, my total expense was $440 and that was for:
Tractor Supply 8"x2" ram NEW $65
NAPA custom length Hydraulic hoses NEW $50
Howe Quick Steer 2:1 ratio NEW $150
Danfoss orbital valve new, but, eBay item. $100
Borgeson steering coupler NEW $25
Borgeson u-joint steering coupler NEW $50
Misc. steel plate and nuts and bolts. $25
Grand total of $465
My unit will turn the tires with the engine dead and the vehicle stopped but it takes muscle. Not sure what my rig weighs but it is a heavy fullsize and the tires can be turned even when hung up in the rocks with the engine idling. So I think my setup is the best budget unit based on cost and even reliability. I will have to say the double ended ram is cool and does not require a full size tie rod but it is very high in cost. There are a lot of rigs running both setups and doing well with them. You just have to choose which you would like.

Well Said. If youre rich, buy a $400 orbital valve and a $400 ram, if you work hard for you money everyday like I do, then buy budget parts and build your chit.

 

[Cody]

ya'll answered my question about if you can turn or not.

i just wonder how it moves enough fluid to push the rod out if it has no pump creating pressure??maybe i need to check out the design of the orbital valve.

 

[OldGoat]

specs

Here is the site to learn all you want and more on Danfoss mini orbital valves.

http://www.sauer-danfoss.com/domdb/SASproducts.nsf/2dd81f77829d09d086256591004f57d7/21D39EDED2649AC786256AD30067095C/$file/DKMHPN210PC02%20%20(OSPM).pdf


Hope it helps out some. One important note and I am sure you already know this but the full hydro will make you illegal for street use in most states but you will be king of the trail! Good luck.

 

[ontherun]

QUOTE: (Create your own crap and save some big cash!!!)

I just took another direction....because, we ripped the steering box off the frame and had to fix it fast for the next event.....if you want to save cash go to a tractor bone yard and get a orbital from a Toro terf tractor..it's the same one howe sells for $350.00... and you do need a pump. The orbital only replaces the steering box...L

 

[4x4Freak]

Not around here. The local tractor JY here wanted from 300-400 for a used orbital, even from the old outdated stuff no one even uses any more.

I got my setup from an old forklift for free.

 

[ontherun]

ouch..the link for the orbitals looks good, that is the first time I have heard of them...why would you have to put a quicksteer on it? because of volume? or for better performance?....L

 

[OldGoat]

quicksteer

We had to because it was taking 7.5 turns lock to lock as opposed to the desired 3.5. Good point on the power steering pump. www.Westtexasoffroad.com has a moidification page for the power steering puimps used on a vast majority of chevy and dodge pickups. It is a quick and easy mod. I used a radiator hose on top of my pump for the extra volume.

 

[54inches]

Old Goat ~ Why would Full Hydraulic steering be illegal? There are no laws concerning steering in Texas, as far as I know. Please prove me wrong if I am.

On the same subject, for those that have a "street legal" rig with Full Hydraulic steering, how does it drive on the highway? How does it react? Does it feel safe or does it feel touchy?

Thanks in advance!

 

[4x4Freak]

20.25 Steering. The steering system of the vehicle must be inspected to determine if excessive wear and/or maladjustment of the steering linkage and/or steering gear exists. Wear and adjustment of the steering system will be checked by measuring lash. Vehicle must be on a dry surface.

Lash defined: Lash is the condition in which the steering control can be turned through some part of a revolution without front wheel motion. The wheels should be loaded and positioned straight ahead.

Jamming defined: Jamming is any obstruction to the turning of the steering control caused by interference between some components of the steering system.

The obstruction would include tires too large or damaged fenders that would interfere with a full right or left turn.

1. Inspection Procedure. Lash or Free Play: With road wheels in straight ahead position, turn steering wheel until the turning motion can be observed at the road wheels. Measure lash. (See diagram.)

2. Inspect for and reject if:

a. Steering Lash (see chart)

Steering Wheel Manual Steering Power Steering

diameter system system

14" or less............. 2".......................... 3"

16"......................... 2".......................... 4"

18"..........................2"......................... 4-3/4"

20"..........................2"......................... 5"

22"......................... 2-3/4"................... 5-3/4"

b. It is impossible to turn the steering wheel from full right to full left without binding or jamming other than at wheel stops.

c. Steering mechanism is not firmly attached and free of frame cracks or missing bolts.

d. Modification of the steering system so as to affect the proper steering of the vehicle or steering wheel has been modified or replaced with one that is noticeably smaller than original factory equipment.

e. Any excessively worn or broken parts in the steering system.

f. Visible leaks in power steering unit or hoses.

g. Power steering belt is excessively cracked, frayed, or has pieces missing or tension is not adequate. Serpentine belts are not to be rejected merely for cracks in the ribs.

h. Fluid in power steering unit is below manufacturer’s recommended level. Do not overfill.

i. On motorcycles and motor-driven cycles, handlebars or steering head is bent, loose, broken or damaged so as to cause unsafe condition in steering.

j. On motorcycles and motor-driven cycles, handlebar grips extend to a height in excess of 15 inches above the saddle level.

On vehicles equipped with flexible couplings, or energy-absorbing steering columns, when it is obvious through a visual inspection of the vehicle that the column has been damaged and is in an unsafe condition, it should be rejected. Tilt steering wheels must lock into position. Steering wheel must be securely mounted to the steering shaft.

NOTE: On vehicles equipped with power steering, the engine must be running and the fluid level, belt tension, and condition must be adequate before testing.

http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/vi/inspection/rules_list.asp?itemdrop=Steering&rejectsubmit=Go

 

[OldGoat]

yep

Well put Zach.
Plus, I would not want to drive a full hydro rig on the street because of the fact that some of the orbital valves, such as mine, have no center detent, therefore no positive centering of the steering wheel relative to the vehicles position in the road, especially at highway speeds. Also a normal steering system, power or manual has a tendency to return the steering wheel to center and the center detent helps keep your vehicle from drifting. I am quite sure Zach could explain this much better. Yes, in my earlier statement I typed "you can feel the stop" etc... and I meant that you could tell when the ram had hit the full travel stop. Sorry for any confusion there. Full hydro is great for the intended purpose but, speaking only for myself, I would never trust it on the highway, legal or not. A hose could burst and you would have no steering and if the power steering belt breaks then you will have very slow steering possibly making it difficult to get the vehicle off the highway in time to avoid an accident. If the vehicle is going to ever see highway service, perhaps hydro assist will be the way to go?

 

[OldGoat]

one more thing

One reason for choosing the ram I did was the cost and the beefiness of it. I felt it was a good item for my budget on this part of the build. It would have been nice not to have needed the Quick Steer and save that $149 but, I have also been told by others who know much mora about hydraulics that perhaps by using a smaller ram a person could get by without the quicksteer. I just did not have the time or money to experiment at the time. Also a little research may yeild a smaller ram at or near the same price as the TS unit. I have given serious thought to going to a 1.5" x 10" Ram for my Dana 60 and if I do I will post and let you know if it is "faster" and I will also let you know if it totally sux. I know by going to a smaller hose the velocity of the fluid increases but then the volume decreases so, there is a lot of trial and error here.

 

[54inches]

Thanks Goat! That is what I was afraid of, the lack of center return, that is, and the possible line bust.

As far as the novel that 4X4 posted, what does that prove.

All it really says is that your steering needs to be in working order, and that is TXDOT standard for all vehicle systems.

Not trying to be an arse or anything, but that is obvious, but I still do not see where it says that modifying the existing system or using a completly different type of steering would render your vehicle failed in a State inspection.

The only part that this subject might fall under would be (d), but the rest of it is just generic.

Again, not trying to be an arse, but after reading what Bill Vista had to say about the issue over on pirate and the extensive knowledge he has, I would really be suprised if anyone would give you grief over any type of steering mod. It is just not an area that throws up alot of warning signs. Those inspectors are more concerned about missing cats, mufflers, bald tires, and properly working vehicle systems.

Heck, they would not even know what it is.

How many times have ya'll had your steering inspected? (Quicker sticker/Jiffy Lube does not count)

But what do I know?

 

[mudgod]

1).... steering gear exists.

d. Modification of the steering system so as to affect the proper steering of the vehicle or steering wheel has been modified or replaced with one that is noticeably smaller than original factory equipment.

You maybe right about them never looking at the steering on your ride, but here is too gray areas that if someone wanted to give you a hard time about something they could use. Of course If that happen I would just take it somewhere else.

 

[OldGoat]

answers

Sometimes a short novel or novella is needed. Since this is a possible safety issue I believe Zach was attempting to give us a complete and technically correct answer. I also take way too much time trying to explain myself but, always try to get the important details in. One of the best parts of this site is reading how eveybody else does the mods to their own rig. I may not go the exact route some other person takes but it is nice to see other builders ideas and methods.
The thing is, way way back when I was much younger we wheeled with maybe a 6" lift max and usually some 33x12.50x15 tires and it was mostly mud and we never thought of hydro assist let alone full hydro, no doublers, no Atlas II xfer cases, no synthetic lubes and did not think too much about other possible mods. Of course we did have rollbars mounted in the bed and topped off with a half dozen KC lights lol.
You never got stopped because your rig was too tall or your bumper was over 25" from the ground or your headlights were over 54" or 52" from the ground etc. AHHH, the good ol' simple days...