[ratbasturd]

The TPWD is playing the legislators for dummies and hoping that we the OHVC just sit and keep quite. Well, I for one don't plan on keeping quite

http://www.4x4republic.com/land_action.htm

 

[nonesuch]

So what is the plan? The SWFWDA doesn't do anything for us in Texas. We all know about how much TMTC does around the state

 

[Hatch]

TMTC is a group of private citizens. Join the group and make a difference if you have a better idea.

 

[ratbasturd]

As for what you can do now write your legislators and tell them we are out of the rivers and would like to know where our parks are? Ask them to create a Off-Highway Vehicle Division here in Texas. The TPW doesn't really want to be involved with motorized recreation, I was told by an upper level TPW employee that most people with the TPW see off-road recreation as a step above strip mining.

Myself(in Austin) and some others( in San Antonio) are in the process of starting an Off-highway vehicle association right now, have obtained a DBA as Texas Off-Highway Vehicle Association, and are in the process of incorporating the name. It will be a 501C-3 organization capable of giving tax credit for donations.

I started looking into what it would take to start an org. soon after my wife became TMTC secretary and I got access to the info on the start up of the TMTC. They started with around $750.00, they got BMRA, then something happened not really sure what , but they changed their Operating Proceedures, from an org. that would have been for the off-road community as a whole, including opposing any legislation that would be bad for the off-road community, to a non-political land management organization.

Anyway.....

#1. Make all of the 4x4 community feel represented.

#2. Ask for support not membership, and all you have to do is sign a
form letter stating that you support the goals, ideas and activities of
T.O.H.V.A.

#3. At some point offer stickers are put together add a donating member category, a $10.00 donation is all you would have to give to get a sticker,
$5.00 would cover the cost of the sticker and the other $5.00 would go
into the org. bank account.

#4. The org. should get most of it's money from raffles and donations,
SWFWDA does this and does alright.

#5. Raffles should have some things that are not directly 4x4 related,like camping items,fishing rods, ect, ect.

#6. Hold cheap or free events for supporters.
Example: Hold an event at some place like Trees Ranch or Katemcy and BMRA with money raised from raffles and donations.

Well there are some of our ideas. We have noticed that a lot of those in the
4x4 community will support stuff as long as it doesn't require a lot of
effort. Being able to go to a legislator and say, we have 2000+ signed
supporters that want to know where our parks are, now that would be cool.
I plan on hanging out at the Capitol once the organization is official and talking to Representatives and Senators about what the off-highway vehicle community wants and needs.

With that said, if we ask at some point for people to show up and rally at the capitol to show the legislators that we are a voice that will be heard, please show up and bring your friends.

 

[Hatch]

Good luck Russ. Too bad y'all dumped TMTC, else you might know more about what's coming. Wish I could say more, but loose lips helped sink previous deals that TMTC was working, so I'm keeping quiet for now.

I, for one, prefer to stick with established organizations (my local club, SWFWDA, UFWDA, TMTC) and tweak/evolve from the inside, rather than attempt to reinvent the wheel. But then again, I don't carry around that "but what have you done for me lately" attitude that some people seem stuck with.

TMTC has, is, and will work closely with TPWD to establish a park and/or trail system in Texas for OHVs. It can't happen overnight and have a chance at lasting long. It's an evolution, but it IS happening fast enough that I can see results (as a TMTC Director). Splintering the offroad community's efforts (by forming other organizations to pester TPWD), will most likely hurt the cause.

TMTC does not seek to FORCE the state and parks dept. to get on the ball by throwing a temper tantrum. We would rather persuade with a diplomatic style of "pressure" because we are intelligent enough to recognize that we need TPWD as a PARTNER, not an enemy, to make a state OHV park system a reality.

 

[ratbasturd]

I really don't care what the TMTC is up to they can manage all the land they want.

However, if there is anymore legislation concerning off-highway vehicles we will be at the capitol to oppose any raw deals not watching the gate at our property.

Look I got no beef with the TMTC it is what it is, an off-highway vehicle property management organization. Hell, at some point we may even work with the TMTC or help them somehow

Helping to raise matching funds to donate to organizations wanting to use RTF monies is another one of our goals. We also want help landowners that have opened their land.

This is my main goal at this time along with helping us to achieve 501c-3.
Get positive media attention, we plan trying to put together some Public Service Announcements (PSA) that can be passed out to television stations. I am working on producing a 4x4 related access television show here in Austin.

We are not out to compete with any other organization, we just have work to do and plan to do it.

 

[ratbasturd]

TMTC has, is, and will work closely with TPWD to establish a park and/or trail system in Texas for OHVs. It can't happen overnight and have a chance at lasting long. It's an evolution, but it IS happening fast enough that I can see results (as a TMTC Director). Splintering the offroad community's efforts (by forming other organizations to pester TPWD), will most likely hurt the cause.

TMTC does not seek to FORCE the state and parks dept. to get on the ball by throwing a temper tantrum. We would rather persuade with a diplomatic style of "pressure" because we are intelligent enough to recognize that we need TPWD as a PARTNER, not an enemy, to make a state OHV park system a reality.

The TMTC is a non political entity and as such won't push anything that is the only thing I don't like about the TMTC.

When I start ripping on the TMTC is when there officers make claims and statements that I am capable of tearing apart.

As for your statements above they are based on total assumption of my behavior on the web you have never met me, you have no idea who I am working with, or how we plan to operate.

 

[ratbasturd]

As for the comments made on links provided, they are my personal view as a 4x4 owner here in Texas not the view of the organization we are putting together.

Hell, if anyone want's to write up there view of things and send it to me I will make a web page for it and post it.

 

[nonesuch]

TMTC is a group of private citizens. Join the group and make a difference if you have a better idea.

I actually do look around for land and such. I work with land developers, title companies, and enviro nazi's. I always ask them to pitch me info to properties. I have yet to find any property that would be worth (or cheap enough) to invest in. If and when I do, I will inform these orgs about it. I have a small lead on some south Texas property (+/- 30,000 acres) that is owned by Capitol Aggregates. I know they lease it out but I am not to sure about who to contact yet.

I don't support (monetarily) TMTC due to the fact that I can't get anything back from the organization living in Austin.

 

[Bobby]

Russ,

I'm not sure anyone can change your attitude about TPWD or the TMTC, but what you always fail to give proper acknowledgement is the power of history past upon the few really active activists in the present.

I have a little saying I'd like to get across to all the "pitbulls" among us...before I get too long winded and lose my audience -

In regards to TPWD and the Capitol in Austin -

Don't waste your time and your troops trying to charge the castle walls. It's alot easier and more effective if you find someone on the inside to open the door for you.

*****

I just got back from a week long Conference in Ontario, CA hosted by the National OHV Conservation Council and including the National Land Managers Conference (USFS/BLM/State Admins). This year, the TMTC was represented as one of three speakers for a new National Private OHV Parks Assn mini-conference. There is an effort being made, even if it sometimes seems it's not making enough progress.

While I was there, I attended a seminar provided by Colorado State Parks. I got copyright permission to copy and implement an Economic Impact Survey conducted by Colorado through the state org, COHVCO, paid for with Colorado RTP grant money. TMTC is doing an EIS with support from TPWD at BMRA over the next year as well, but this will provide us with a basis for a statewide survey....and we don't have to pay for the work the folks in CO already did.

Without these kinds of demographics and economic breakdowns, what do you plan to impress the legislature with?....your good looks and charm? Are you and your buddies going to drive up on the lawn and get arrested? Are you going to sue the state and expect them to show you respect?

How long do you think it will take to complete a statewide EIS? Yeah....a little while...but if we don't do it, who will? If not now, when? What is it that you think any org can do when they have no lobbyists and no money to enter the big game? Yeah, it may take twenty years....it's only been five...I think we're doing pretty good, considering the opposition we face and the fact that we've avoided having the eco-enviro activists put a jacket on us and use us for target practice.

I also was part of a very detailed and informative session on insurance issues for private ORV Parks and the potential for group insurance for collective orgs....which is something the TMTC is trying to find a solution for as well. If you should happen to find underwriters who are willing to carry a $2M-$5M policy for us with less than a $200,000 annual premium, maybe you could let the TMTC or NOHVCC know and we can help clubs and individuals who run dinky little parks that don't make squat get a hand up on the house game.

****

As with any organization, the same half dozen or so people do all the work, the majority enjoy the fruits of that labor, and a half dozen or so complain about things we can not control. Over the years I've known you, I've always appreciated that you are not a delegate to the middle party, but many times you overstep the bounds on the radical side and become a political liability for the people you wish to work for.

As I've said before, these folks in Austin make their living doing this work. If they perceive you or your efforts may result in their own political suicide, they'd be fools to offer you any support. That is precisely why the TMTC plays to the cool hand and makes sure we don't alienate our position while we make small steps closer to the seats of power each time we get a chance.

In 1845, Texas joined the Union, and for the first and only time in US history, the Republic retained the right to keep ALL of it's land for the State and it's landowners...and was not forced to give it up to the federal government to which it pleads allegiance. Landowner rights is THE issue here Russ, not a conspiracy on the part of TPWD to screw us over. TPWD has an obligation, first and foremost, to protect the private landowners in Texas...and if that gets our way, so be it...that is how the state of Texas protects its' own.

The real ISSUE we are facing is how to change that pattern of history just enough for us to get our into the big game...then maybe we can find out who our real allies are in all this...and we can start to make a difference.

With that all said....

I'd like to apologize to the Staff of this fine message board site for stepping in and rattling up any trouble with my comments....it was not my intention to make work for you guys! Thanks for offering this town hall where free men can speak...it deserves more recognition than it ever gets...

Best Regards,

Bobby Beamer
Spring, Tx.

 

[Bobby]

Myself(in Austin) and some others( in San Antonio) are in the process of starting an Off-highway vehicle association right now, have obtained a DBA as Texas Off-Highway Vehicle Association, and are in the process of incorporating the name. It will be a 501C-3 organization capable of giving tax credit for donations.

You can't do what you are intending to do as a 501c3. The IRS will not grant you a charitable status if you participate in political activism. I'm sure you've read the law and noted that you are allowed to participate in a limited amount of political advertising to promote community goodwill, not a particular candidate or campaign, but in practice, you'll search hopelessly to find a 501c3 that has survived the IRS gauntlet when they actually try it.

If you want to survive, you'll have to file as a 501c4...a public welfare org...and then you can do whatever you want with the money you raise and you don't have to file jack with the IRS. But, you're pushing against a wave of support from TPWD toward the TMTC, that will most probably overwhelm your pirate ship and result in even more support for the TMTC, so go for it.


As I've told you already, you can't use the corp identity for Texas OHV Assn...so stop promoting the idea that you can.

You may own the DBA in your county, but you can't get the corp identity. Even if the SOS office doesn't notice right away, if you publish it as an entity, you're infringing on state corp rights law. You already know this...so why do you continue to think we'd let you file that similar of a corp identity?

The Texas Offroad Network owns the corp name rights to Texas OHV and Texas ORV....or any variations that represent or closely resemble those acronyms...and I WILL file a petition against you if you use it. It costs me nothing to petition against you and I can file with a simple phone call and an online form during my lunch hour, but if you insist on being hard headed and wasting your time, go for it.

OK...that should ruin my reputation for awhile....I'm outa here...

 

[Rastus]

I'd like to apologize to the Staff of this fine message board site for stepping in and rattling up any trouble with my comments....it was not my intention to make work for you guys! Thanks for offering this town hall where free men can speak...it deserves more recognition than it ever gets...

Best Regards,

Bobby Beamer
Spring, Tx.

No apologies are needed, Bobby. That's what this forum is for to open up and discuss the issues that affect all of us in the wheeling community. I think it would be great if we could all come to some type of agreement \ understanding where we can all work together to grow and create more parks. Everybody has different points of view and ideas on how to best make this happen. By open discussion such as this we can all learn each others views and ideas.

 

[ratbasturd]

You can't do what you are intending to do as a 501c3. The IRS will not grant you a charitable status if you participate in political activism. I'm sure you've read the law and noted that you are allowed to participate in a limited amount of political advertising to promote community goodwill, not a particular candidate or campaign, but in practice, you'll search hopelessly to find a 501c3 that has survived the IRS gauntlet when they actually try it.

If you want to survive, you'll have to file as a 501c4...a public welfare org...and then you can do whatever you want with the money you raise and you don't have to file jack with the IRS. But, you're pushing against a wave of support from TPWD toward the TMTC, that will most probably overwhelm your pirate ship and result in even more support for the TMTC, so go for it.


As I've told you already, you can't use the corp identity for Texas OHV Assn...so stop promoting the idea that you can.

You may own the DBA in your county, but you can't get the corp identity. Even if the SOS office doesn't notice right away, if you publish it as an entity, you're infringing on state corp rights law. You already know this...so why do you continue to think we'd let you file that similar of a corp identity?

The Texas Offroad Network owns the corp name rights to Texas OHV and Texas ORV....or any variations that represent or closely resemble those acronyms...and I WILL file a petition against you if you use it. It costs me nothing to petition against you and I can file with a simple phone call and an online form during my lunch hour, but if you insist on being hard headed and wasting your time, go for it.

OK...that should ruin my reputation for awhile....I'm outa here...

Please don't talk down to me Mr. Airplane, I'm not chunking spears so I don't need your condescending attitude. I can dig up the IRS pages stating that you can assume limited political involvement with the proper filings

Well I guess we will see, if we can't we can't. I guess we will see what happens. Besides it's not the name it what you do with it.

 

[Laurathebum]

"We all know about how much TMTC does around the state"

You knew what Bobby's been doing...he just told you some..he's also writing grants for other offroad endeavours
You know what Carol's been doing in regards to legislature and insurance and the LRAP and the Canadian River and Kermit...and her efforts in locating new land
You know what Leslie is doing with the Forest Service
You know what Steve is doing with the dirtbike crowd
You know my dealings with distributers ..or Cisco

...Or do you just know what the guys in East Texas are doing at BMRA?

 

[ratbasturd]

"We all know about how much TMTC does around the state"

You knew what Bobby's been doing...he just told you some..he's also writing grants for other offroad endeavours
You know what Carol's been doing in regards to legislature and insurance and the LRAP and the Canadian River and Kermit...and her efforts in locating new land
You know what Leslie is doing with the Forest Service
You know what Steve is doing with the dirtbike crowd
You know my dealings with distributers ..or Cisco

...Or do you just know what the guys in East Texas are doing at BMRA?

What's your point?

I think I already stated that I really don't care what TMTC is doing, they are no longer a concern of mine.

Here is something I do know, there are a large number of wheelers in Texas that feel TMTC does nothing for them.


That is all.

 

[Hatch]

And what has your group done for a large number of wheelers in
texas? You haven't done anything for me, so I guess (by your standards) your group is ineffective.

 

[ratbasturd]

And what has your group done for a large number of wheelers in
texas? You haven't done anything for me, so I guess (by your standards) your group is ineffective.

Nothing yet, we aren't even an official organization at this time. You make yourself look like an uneducated fool with comments like that.

Give us 5 years and ask me that again.

I will not be drawn into a TMTC confrontation, you guys seem to be the confrontational ones here.

 

[Laurathebum]

What's your point?

I think I already stated that I really don't care what TMTC is doing, they are no longer a concern of mine.

Here is something I do know, there are a large number of wheelers in Texas that feel TMTC does nothing for them.


That is all.

Russ,

My post was not in reply to anything you had written. I usually do not converse with you...as you well know.

But...

I do wish you well with your organization. I don't care who makes land available for offroad use.

Laura

 

[xanthias]

Except for Hatch and Rastus, I don't recognize anyone in this thread--all new members. But I feel as though I should.

 

[Hatch]

Again, good luck Russ.