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Discussion Starter #21
thats what i was aiming for, this sm465 is great dont get me wrong but when its wound up tight at some rpms that thing is not going to shift in time to catch a smooth gear lol. from what i've heard the 5-speed is alot easier shifting and i can start taking care or the rice burners on the street around here.:toast:. does anyone know of any down sides to the 5-speed? from what i've gathered its an all around bad @$$ tranny but there is always gonna be that little somethin.
 

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5th gear nut,4x4modle sould fix this. Sencors with a gas motor's dont last long and the seals, And speed shifting them. You can break the shift fork in them.

Thing is that these trans were built for low rpm high torque and pulling. Spending the money on the shortshift kit help out alot on these problems. Other then that. There a super strong trans.
 

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Mine doesnt have the nut. IIRC, it is all held together by the yoke nut.

Here's some more info about the problem. http://quad4x4.com/NV4500 5th Gear Failures and Solutions.htm This place also sells some upgraded parts if you can afford them.

If you get a used tranny I would highly recommend rebuilding it, or atleast pull it apart and check it out. They are pretty simple to work on, just be sure you keep track of where everything goes. Also, most rebuild kits dont come with all the bearings. I ended up having to buy some extras once I got it broke down. Also check the thrust surface on the input gear, mine was badly pitted and needed replaced.
 

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If you have a NV4500, I suggest too that you rebuild it. Make sure you have the following upgrades done...

1. Later half (95-up) shift tower. The square top fixes all the shifting problems associated with the earlier bottle top version. Early model bottle tops are notorious for 2-3 gear popping out.

2. Later half (95-up) synchro's. These too are updated and much stronger.

3. Synchronize the reverse gear. Early models do not have such animal.

4. 5th gear nut upgrade.


Also, the GM version does NOT have a rear output seal. The adapter will fill completely with gear oil and will be against the t-case. Make very sure you have an excellent seal between the adapter and t-case. If you don't, when the engine is started and the tranny internals start turning, it creates pressure and will force the oil through any thin/missed spots.

Ask me how I know this..... 2finger

Short shifter is available but it's for the Dodge NV4500's only. Theoretically you could use it in the GM, but you would have to get a Dodge shifter handle because the thread size and pitch are different than Chevy's.

Think about adding tranny coolers. They would replace the PTO covers and will aid in keeping temperatures down. They have provisions for a temperature guage, which I added to mine. The ones I used are from Blumenthal and are available on the web.







I also highly recommend from www.quad4x4.com, their oil filter kit. It has a beefy filtration system and a big magnet inside to catch any metal shavings. Yes, the tranny already has a magnet on the bottom, but an extra one won't hurt. You can use it with out without a tranny cooler.







You will also need to remove your center hump, weld closed the SM465 opening and cut a new opening for the NV4500 shifter. The SM465's is forward on the top, whereas the NV4500 is rearwards.

If you have an NP208 you will have to modify the shifter housing as that and the shifter boot cannot share the same space. No mod is required for a NP205 as the hole is fine for that shifter.











That's all I can think of right now.

Manny
 

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I have never seen a need to add all of that cooler stuff. Seriously is it really that big of a deal in a manual tranny? What's slipping that's causing a lot of heat build up? In the Auto tranny it's the torque converter. In the manual tranny it's "Maybe" the bearings turning, but if they heat up under normal use then there's something wrong with it. Such as wornout bearing, or not the proper gear oil.

I think the tranny cooler is over kill for normal wheeling, but great for mall crawlers! LOL
 

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I have never seen a need to add all of that cooler stuff. Seriously is it really that big of a deal in a manual tranny? What's slipping that's causing a lot of heat build up? In the Auto tranny it's the torque converter. In the manual tranny it's "Maybe" the bearings turning, but if they heat up under normal use then there's something wrong with it. Such as wornout bearing, or not the proper gear oil.

I think the tranny cooler is over kill for normal wheeling, but great for mall crawlers! LOL

You couldn't be more wrong in your comments. Anything that is mechanical and with moving parts is going to generate heat. Heat is the enemy of moving parts because it stresses the materials. A manual transmission will heat up under normal usage. All manual transmissions have a rated, normal operating temperature.

The NV4500 needs a special gear oil. It's made from Castrol and it's called Syntorq. GM seals it under part number 12346190. Dodge offers the same, but I don't know the part number. This oil is designed NOT to break down at higher operating temperatures. The reason this oil is used, is because the NV4500 synchro's will generate heat. Enough heat that normal gear oils will fail. There are plenty of posts on different forums concerning the NV4500 and its heat and lubricating issues. If the builders had a specific oil made to deal with the generated heat, isn't that reason alone to have a temp guage to watch what your tranny is doing?

Now, lets go off-roading. Add mud and spinning tires at high RPM's, you are going to add heat to the transmission. Get stuck and trying to rock your way out is definitely going to create heat. Constant recoveries will add heat. Hill climbs will generate heat. I can only imagine the heat developed while rock crawling or beach running. Any activity that puts a load on the transmission is going to create heat.

You like to fish? Do you use a trailer? Towing will add heat. The coolers serve a purpose, just like a power steering cooler or even your engines radiator.

Honestly, I understand your entitled to your opinion, but saying that all that stuff is great for mall crawlers, well, it's a cheap shot and kind of sounds ignorant.
 

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Ive never seen the cooler thingys before. Think its way over kill for the trail rig. Maybe a hotshot truck or sled truck.

I have seen temp gauge that for the guys that look gauge on everything. Like rear end temp gauge.

Hell i dont know if my tranny well bolt up. But ill sell it for $3g's. I heard the magnum 318 are built off the old chevy 350's.
 

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You couldn't be more wrong in your comments. Anything that is mechanical and with moving parts is going to generate heat. Heat is the enemy of moving parts because it stresses the materials. A manual transmission will heat up under normal usage. All manual transmissions have a rated, normal operating temperature.

The NV4500 needs a special gear oil. It's made from Castrol and it's called Syntorq. GM seals it under part number 12346190. Dodge offers the same, but I don't know the part number. This oil is designed NOT to break down at higher operating temperatures. The reason this oil is used, is because the NV4500 synchro's will generate heat. Enough heat that normal gear oils will fail. There are plenty of posts on different forums concerning the NV4500 and its heat and lubricating issues. If the builders had a specific oil made to deal with the generated heat, isn't that reason alone to have a temp guage to watch what your tranny is doing?

Now, lets go off-roading. Add mud and spinning tires at high RPM's, you are going to add heat to the transmission. Get stuck and trying to rock your way out is definitely going to create heat. Constant recoveries will add heat. Hill climbs will generate heat. I can only imagine the heat developed while rock crawling or beach running. Any activity that puts a load on the transmission is going to create heat.

You like to fish? Do you use a trailer? Towing will add heat. The coolers serve a purpose, just like a power steering cooler or even your engines radiator.

Honestly, I understand your entitled to your opinion, but saying that all that stuff is great for mall crawlers, well, it's a cheap shot and kind of sounds ignorant.
You are correct on any moving parts will generate heat. Hence why I said the bearings creating heat. "syncro" (which is spelled synchro) are not designed to be used at all time, it's only designed to be used when engaging a gear, hence to help the gear shift smoother, once it's engaged it shouldn't be moving under load, the gear should take the load, the synchro will just spin freely with the gear. If you are having severe failure in the synchro then you are not fulling disengaging the clutch.

Actually the fluid is designed to be thin but yet handle the high temp of heavy towing. The synchro can not function correctly with thick gear oil and tranny fluid can't handle the heat without a cooler. So they designed a fluid that can handle the heat without adding a cooler.

I am sure the fins helps some, but i don't see that great of a benefit of it unless there is air moving under there, and the engine fan is just going to bring hot air from the engine to the tranny, and the exhaust is going to be cooking your fins unless air is moving.

You take that mudding situation and you got a tranny that's getting really hot and not moving in the air that fast. You are not doing that much better then running the tranny without it. If you added a fan near the tranny then you might have something that's worth the coins. But then you will have a problem with mud clogging the fans.

Unless you can find a way to pump fluid to a cooler, and have enough fluid in the tranny for operations then you can run a external cooler with a fan which would do a lot better then those fins. Plus the fins will cover up with mud and that's not going to help anything.

But lets say you are offroading in a desert flying through the sand, then those fins would work better then in the mud. Along with actually towing the truck and those fins will work better also.

But since I know you are more of a mudder, this is not the ideal setup for mud in my opinion, but hopefully it all works out for you!:budlight:
 

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AMSOIL makes fluid for it also. ;)

http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/mtg.aspx

If I ever get a smokin deal on a 4500, I may swap it in place of the 465, but I think I will just hold out for a ZF6 for when I swap everything into a tube chassis (sometime in the next couple of decades :D )
 

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nv4500 oil cooler

It's something you would want to do for towing mainly. I have read that the gears are cut in a manner to require a special high temp gear oil, so the gears must be making more friction under load. So it seems that one would want to give it all the help you can to make it last in a tow rig so you won't be broken down on a hot road , kicking the tires and yelling! Because I have seen this happen and the trans had locked up , making it so the transfer case had to be placed in neutral and be towed . :toast:
 

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Discussion Starter #32
i dunno how much towing i will be doing really, maybe pulling some guys out occationally, its mostley a trail rig but its also street legal so its kinda in a path to take on anything.:toast:
 

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Discussion Starter #33
If you have a NV4500, I suggest too that you rebuild it. Make sure you have the following upgrades done...

1. Later half (95-up) shift tower. The square top fixes all the shifting problems associated with the earlier bottle top version. Early model bottle tops are notorious for 2-3 gear popping out.

2. Later half (95-up) synchro's. These too are updated and much stronger.

3. Synchronize the reverse gear. Early models do not have such animal.

4. 5th gear nut upgrade.


Also, the GM version does NOT have a rear output seal. The adapter will fill completely with gear oil and will be against the t-case. Make very sure you have an excellent seal between the adapter and t-case. If you don't, when the engine is started and the tranny internals start turning, it creates pressure and will force the oil through any thin/missed spots.

Ask me how I know this..... 2finger

Short shifter is available but it's for the Dodge NV4500's only. Theoretically you could use it in the GM, but you would have to get a Dodge shifter handle because the thread size and pitch are different than Chevy's.

Think about adding tranny coolers. They would replace the PTO covers and will aid in keeping temperatures down. They have provisions for a temperature guage, which I added to mine. The ones I used are from Blumenthal and are available on the web.







I also highly recommend from www.quad4x4.com, their oil filter kit. It has a beefy filtration system and a big magnet inside to catch any metal shavings. Yes, the tranny already has a magnet on the bottom, but an extra one won't hurt. You can use it with out without a tranny cooler.







You will also need to remove your center hump, weld closed the SM465 opening and cut a new opening for the NV4500 shifter. The SM465's is forward on the top, whereas the NV4500 is rearwards.

If you have an NP208 you will have to modify the shifter housing as that and the shifter boot cannot share the same space. No mod is required for a NP205 as the hole is fine for that shifter.











That's all I can think of right now.

Manny
sorry i didnt get to check my e-mails this weekend. manny thanks for all the info i really sppreciate it, im gonna get started on buying everything piece by piece. looks like you've got a bad @$$ set up there as well
 

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negative 6l90e its in the denali's behind the new 6.2 gas motor!
it rips!
Thanks for the info muddy, didn't know anything about the new tranny. Have heard of the 6.2 though!!bigok
 

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Discussion Starter #36
negative 6l90e its in the denali's behind the new 6.2 gas motor!
it rips!
now if i can get my hands on one of them i'd be happy, trash the car and take the motor and tranny out with a smile on my face lol.strpot
 

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me to i think its almost a 4:1 first made a little less. and its gonna be stout too
 

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Just FYI my 4500 and 205 combo came out to fit EXACTLY where the 465/205 fit in the frame rails. I just had to modify the tunnel as everyone else. I still havent changed the pressure plate in mine to the correct one yet though, cuz i'm putting my turbo 6.5 and 4500/205 in my '72 Stepside
 

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I'm swapping the entire driveline from a 1996 K3500 with the NV4500 into a 1989 K2500 with the 465 Granny, I know that I will have to modify the Shifter Hole in the tunnel, but the only other issue that I'm not sure about is how to deal with the Clutch Slave. Going from the external Clutch cylinder to the Internal Cylinder. CAn I just swap lines and use the old Slave, or will I have to change Slaves and Pedals too? I'd like to be able to just splice the new into the old line....I can't imagine there is that much pressure in that line. Probably less with the internal throw out bearing. Anyone have any clues for me?
 
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