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Want Night 'Wheeling at BMRA?

24K views 152 replies 21 participants last post by  xanthias 
#1 · (Edited)
Many people have approached me about this after I was elected as OHV representative. So, if you are serious and you are a member of TMTC:

1. The issue is whether and how to re-establish night-time wheeling at BMRA. I think a lot of members want it.

2. The problems we have to work on in order to make that happen are nicely summarized here:

http://www.texas4x4.org/showpost.php?p=113123&postcount=39

Edit: I will quote that post for non-registered people linking in here, who can't view it:

xanthias said:
I can tell you that is and has been under active discussion, and was on the table at the July Board meeting, which I observed but in which I did not participate.

In general terms, I think the Board is game for night wheeling on some basis. There are some fairly important issues to contend with, however, to make that work. Foremost, it is imperative that BRMA avoid disturbing the quiet use and enjoyment of neighbors' property. Indeed, TMTC just went to a lot of expense and effort (through volunteers and property management labor) to abate some erosion and deal with some runoff that was causing complaints from neighboring properties.

We all know the problems that can come with night wheeling, from a property management standpoint:
1. Noise that disturbs neighbors.
2. Drunken idiocy.
3. People who will not stick to designated trails.
4. Late night breakage that has people out at all hours trying to fix or drag their junk back to camp.
5. No volunteers to patrol at night to keep everyone safe and give a hand when needed.

Consequently, solutions to address these issues are what are under discussion:

What hours?
What trails are properly situated on the mountain to minimize disturbing neighbors?
How do you keep people on the designated night trails and avoid cowboying onto day-use-only trails?
Who will patrol the property and be available to help with any issues?

I am not speaking ex cathedra on behalf of the Board, but my personal opinion about some answers might be:

1. Signage be created to identify night trails and all others get roped off after regular hours.

2. I also think 1 person from each group should be signed in at the station as the "Trail Boss", if you will, for his or her group and THEY are responsible for any problems or behavior of their entire group. Trail Bosses must have a CB and be available on the air for the Volunteers or Property Management.

3. The Trail Boss answers to the property management or the Volunteer Patrol for any problems and is responsible for addressing anything with his or her group. So, if you are the TB and one of the guys in your group acts the fool then you handle it immediately yourself, or your whole group has to go and you are going to be a man about it and be the one to tell them they have to go.

Why? Because volunteers are there to help everyone enjoy themselves and because they love wheeling enough to give up their sleep and free time to help. They are not there to get into a 2 a.m. screaming match with some Darwin Award Candidate who just polished off their 9th Silver Bullett before deciding to tackle "Dewoody At Nite" without lights or a winch.

I don't think it would take more than one or two examples and there wouldn't be a problem because Trail Bosses will self-police.

4. We need volunteer patrol units willing to roll at night and keep an eye on things and lock up the night trails after whatever the night hours are concluded.

etc.
I think reasonable people understand there will have to be some controls in place, even if night 'wheeling were implemented. All night cowboying and all trails being open for night wheeling would not be feasible under any circumstances.

3. Feel free to discuss ideas here, but the item that I plan to use to show the level of real interest is the online petition I've set up for the members' use here:

http://www.petitiononline.com/TMTCBMRA/petition.html

Go sign it. Only TMTC members can sign, so have your member number handy. If you are not an active TMTC member and this is important to you, then become one:

http://www.texasmotorizedtrails.com/Join+TMTC+Today!

The next regular Board meeting is in January, but the BMRA Operations Committee will be looking at this concern in the meantime.

EDIT FOR THOSE LINKING IN FROM OTHER BOARDS:

For any current or former members who do not have their card, to get your membership number, email the TMTC VP, Jack Slack, at:

jslack@slackranch.com

He will take care of you.

If you want to sign up for a membership or renew, fill out that form at the TMTC site at the link above and you can mail it with your dues to:

TMTC Membership
P.O. Box 7267
Longview, TX 75607-7267
 
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#2 ·
I would sign it, and I AM a member. But I still dont have a member #--still have the temp card. I was told that tons of people still only have the temp cards. Its been a year for me..Lawton said they havent mailed out permanent cards in a long time.

????????????
 
#5 ·
For any current or former members who do not have their card, to get your membership number, email the TMTC VP, Jack Slack, at:

jslack@slackranch.com

He will take care of you.

If you want to sign up for a membership or renew, fill out that form at the TMTC site at the link above and you can mail it with your dues to:

TMTC Membership
P.O. Box 7267
Longview, TX 75607-7267
 
#6 ·
Tee Hee
According to the petition, I'm first!

I giggle because I never liked the death sentence to night wheelin' when I was on the board but never could rally enough support (on the board) to get it changed. So I leave the baord and am the first to sign the petition.

Never mind...you had to be there.
 
#7 · (Edited)
Well, I'm not promising anyone anything - its not my say alone to be sure. What I am doing is trying to represent my constituency and establish a reliable yardstick I can take to the Board and say, "Here's the level of interest."

If we get 25 signatures (I expect this will get posted on other boards) out of all the active membership, I imagine the Board could take that as an indication of no strong interest. If we get 500 . . .
 
#9 ·
Up to three signers now. I would think that 25 members would have to be more than voted in the last election. Because of the way the charter of TMTC is setup if enough people sign this they will have to allow night wheeling and under any rules we want. At the bottom of my card there is a quote: " In Unity there is Strength". So, if no one votes, or goes to meetings, nothing will happen. Lucky for us, we now the internet and your voice can be heard even if you can't drive across Texas.
[RANTI beleave some parts of Barnwell should be open all night.
Campers complaining about noise? Be aware this is an offroad park, and you will hear rigs at night! As the harder 5 diamond trails keep being closed down, trails like Houston Creek, Dewoody, and Scorpion Pass are going to be wheeled! I'm sorry if you chose to to use the RV hook-ups beside a 4 diamond (that should be a fiver) trail, or stayed at Old Camp. Hey, The trail goes this way, and I paid to drive this trail as well as the others!! Hell, I worked on the trails so that I could. [/RANT]
 
#10 ·
night wheeling

I am for night wheeling. I feel we should keep the night wheeling away from the trails too close to neighbors. Maybe there should also be a rule of 2 or more vehicles to night wheel a trail, a good rule for day wheeling as well IMHO. Thanks for bringing this to the table again Greg.
 
#11 ·
Gordon said:
Two questions: Can you get this up on the TMTC site and why was no night wheeling law even started?
Good questions both, Gordon.

As to the first, I could but the reality is, no one goes to the TMTC website because most of its content is static. The petition will get much more exposure by being posted and linked here and similar sites where 'wheelers congregate. Heck, we may even have casual day-use people at BMRA feel strongly enough about it that they will join TMTC as regular members and voice their interest with a signature.

As to the second question, Laura ("laurathebum") and Alan ("Hatch") can fill in the details, but my post linked above summarizes the problems with night wheeling. In short, those problems were people going on trails they shouldn't at night, wheeling after the night hours had ended, wheeling drunk and disturbing the neighboring property owners, which makes trouble for TMTC. I also think there was a lack of "Trail Bosses" or volunteer patrols to self-police the night wheelers, which then led to unpleasantness with the property management because there were too few hall monitors, so to speak.
 
#12 ·
mudgod said:
Up to three signers now. I would think that 25 members would have to be more than voted in the last election. Because of the way the charter of TMTC is setup if enough people sign this they will have to allow night wheeling and under any rules we want. At the bottom of my card there is a quote: " In Unity there is Strength". So, if no one votes, or goes to meetings, nothing will happen. Lucky for us, we now the internet and your voice can be heard even if you can't drive across Texas.
[RANTI beleave some parts of Barnwell should be open all night.
Campers complaining about noise? Be aware this is an offroad park, and you will hear rigs at night! As the harder 5 diamond trails keep being closed down, trails like Houston Creek, Dewoody, and Scorpion Pass are going to be wheeled! I'm sorry if you chose to to use the RV hook-ups beside a 4 diamond (that should be a fiver) trail, or stayed at Old Camp. Hey, The trail goes this way, and I paid to drive this trail as well as the others!! Hell, I worked on the trails so that I could. [/RANT]
There are members of the BMRA Operations Committee who are pro-night wheeling and committed to look hard at having it in some form. I don't think you have to do a lot of convincing about the concept. I also am happy to report you are wrong about the number of people who voted in the last election and 25 signatures is not going to be a very impressive showing - I'm hoping for better.

Yes, BMRA is an offroad park - however, TMTC like any other property owner, must not interfere with the "quiet use and enjoyment" of its neighbors' land. The issue is not so much campers on-property bitching about noise. The issue is neighboring land owners. That language is the legal standard and articulates our duty and it's the same reason why I can't move next door to you and run my chainsaw all night long - sooner or later you're going to complain to the local law enforcement and even sue me (successfully) if needed to enforce your own right to enjoy your property. TMTC must, for reasons that I think are obvious, be an exemplary neighbor for all - one of the reasons, for example, several thousand dollars was spent last year in abating erosion that was causing silt deposit on neighbors' land.

For those reasons, I doubt seriously that all-night wheeling can be made feasible - something like 10PM to 2AM, etc. is more plausible. I also suspect all trails cannot be left open for night wheeling due mostly to noise issues - the property is elevated to its neighbors on some sides and the noise carries. That's the way the geography is.

We haven't even touched on the "policing" problem - how to deal in some fair, professional way with people who are going to by-God wheel wherever they want at night, going to wheel drunk, bust their junk at 3 am (yet another reason why 5 diamonds being open at night poses issues), etc., etc.

I would like to see in the discussion some ideas from those who are passionate about night wheeling to address the concerns like these in my reply and like those in my linked post...
 
#13 ·
OldGoat said:
I am for night wheeling. I feel we should keep the night wheeling away from the trails too close to neighbors. Maybe there should also be a rule of 2 or more vehicles to night wheel a trail, a good rule for day wheeling as well IMHO. Thanks for bringing this to the table again Greg.
Yes, I've personally been envisioning a designated, volunteer "Trail Boss" or something similar for each wheeling group, who's signed in at the office and available on CB and who takes responsibility for their group. I also agree about no one being allowed to wheel solo at night. 'Wheelers are an independent lot, as a rule, and I think it works best when you give them the tools to self-police (think military platoon squad leader) instead of having property management involved in the middle of the night.

A volunteer trail patrol comes to mind, as well.
 
#14 · (Edited)
I live very close to Barnwell and go there quite often. I do not always go wheeling with a group nor do I think I should have to at a park as small as Barnwell. I have had to walk to my tow rig more than once at night because I broke my rig. I ended up walking back to the tow rig this past weekend at 9:30 am because the rig I was in broke down. Guess what? Nothing bad happened, because I had to walk. Please, please don't push for a two or more rig thing at night!
"OK, can someone ride with me and my wife to Scorpion Overlook so we can go "parking", and please don't look and can you put in these ear plugs?"
The best times I have had at Barnwell were at night. Mainly because I have always worked days, yes weekends, and would drive to the park knowing that I could get in some wheeling, not now.
Use this when you talk to the board. Who wants to get off work in Houston on Friday and drive to an offroad park knowing that you will not be allowed on the trails that night. You can wheel on a Saturday if you want, but only until 10:00 pm. And you must wait 9 hours before you can hit the trails Sunday.
Now I know that the board has thought about this because of the new hours and the way you are charged now. I check the gate every Friday and it is always open by 7:30 am. So I'm sure that helps, but if someone really wanted to go wheeling they could drive just 2.5 hrs past Barnwell and wheel all night if they wanted to.
 
#15 ·
yep

Good points Greg. I for one would not mind volunteering to be a trail leader/ helper. The issue of at least one wheeler having a rig towed etc. was not a good thing for wheelers as a whole and for the property at BMRA. Most folks when talked with in a calm voice will understand reason and most groups, ours at Texas4X4 especially like to have a good time as a group and get along very well. I have night wheeled with a lot of our members here and had some of my best experiences with them. It is a whole different feeling wheeling at night yet when done safely and with a good group it enhances your wheeling skills.
One problem is getting a group from the camping areas to any trail at night and back without making noise that is going to wake up a sleeping camper. Even at a slow (Rusty) speed there is going to be exhaust pipe noise, clanging tow hooks, squealing belts, cooling fan noise etc. This is where the designated night wheeling areas will make or break the issue. I know there are a few small campsites along the road from the camping spot where we, the Texas4X4 bunch camp back to Clydes Ravine, Twister and then along the main road and the left turn to get back to the trails near and around DeWoody but the disturbance along that route would be minimal to all other campers. Signs could be posted at those campsites letting campers know this was a designated night run area and some rigs will be going through the area till 2 AM or whatever the set time happens to be. Just a few thoughts.
 
#17 ·
mudgod said:
"OK, can someone ride with me and my wife to Scorpion Overlook so we can go "parking", and please don't look and can you put these ear plugs in"?"
I think I'm beginning to understand your "passion" for night wheeling at BMRA!

I'll look into some signage to warn hapless passers-by about the Mudgod Protected Procreation Area 2finger
 
#19 ·
Good stuff George...

I'm obviously missing quite a bit by not having made a trip north to do some wheeling. Hope to change all that soon. I'm not a member of TMTC, yet, but i'd be one to sway the "night wheeling" way. Regulators would be a plus also.

My opinion anyhow.
 
#20 ·
Originally Posted by mudgod
"OK, can someone ride with me and my wife to Scorpion Overlook so we can go "parking", and please don't look and can you put these ear plugs in"?"


I will take that job, I promise I won't look. :angel:
 
#22 ·
Hatch said:
The simple answer to why night wheeling is pretty much dead (ends at 10pm) is because a few, but enough, people couldn't exercise a little common sense and it killed the deal for all of us.
That is right Hatch, and that is why it is so wrong to take the night wheeling away. TMTC has rules. If you break the rules things are to happen to the people breaking them. That did not happen. All the park did was say, "ALRIGHT, BECAUSE A FEW, BUT ENOUGH HAVE BROKE THIS 12:00AM RULE WE WILL NO LONGER ALLOW NIGHT WHEELING!!!!" I was out there asking why the not wheeling was stoppped, and the answer I was given because it keep the camper up. The closing of the 5 diamond trails at the front of the park was to help the neighbors complants. And when the park forgot to mark the trails that where no longer allow for night wheeling they would get mad.

When I first started going out to Barnwell Hatch and I were making a night run through some nasty stuff one night (this trail is closed now). We ended up on the trail that goes right by one of the neighbors house. Now we would have not went that way (maybe) if we had know someones house was there. Guess what? We ended up having to turn around and drive by his house again. Guess what? people drive by my house all the time, too. That "Neighbor" also lives beside a big hill that 18 wheeler's go up and down all the time and use thier engine brakes to slow down. Besides that, That "Neighbor" is also a known as a complaner. When that guy gets mad, who is he going to call, the county cops? Well, a way to fix that is to invite the county cops to the park for a night run! Can you say a little wine and dine?

I don't want to get off track, but if the noise that carries at night is keeping that guy up, just tell him to turn his hearing aid off.
Here is a question: how close does Jack Slack live to the park anyway? Does he live as far away as I do? Or does he live right next to the place?
 
#23 ·
Yes, some campers have complained. Their complaints went something like this....
I just drove all this way to bring my 5 year old to ride his bike and there's drunk 4x4s being loud...not just on the trails but right by where our tent is at 2 and 3 int the morning ...waking us up.

Neighbors complained....They're driving by my house all night....

But, in my opinion....these two issues could be more than adequetly addressed by using just specific trails for night riding. We have many interior trails that could be utilized and not bother sleeping neighbors or campers.

Here's how I see what happened....how we went from the trails being open from Friday at 6 through Sunday at 6.
March maybe April of 2000, My first visit to BMRA on the first work weekend. 12midnite....in a dead stock Tracker's first time on a trail....We followed Clyde and Bo and others down Airstrip.
Clyde understood the desire to go offroad in the dark. It didn't even dawn on him that he shouldn't. Even got in trouble for telling the neighbors that he wouldn't ask his people to not ride at night....of course he probably did it the Clyde way instead of a neighborly way.
New management. They do alright for hired hands. I've never been on a trail ride with them. Even though the 12 oclock curfew started right when they were hired...it's not really their fault. The Board started the curfew and told Lawton he was to enforce it as best he could.
Then the bad apples...
Then Gary Hazel,Pres was talking to complaining neighbors and instead of closing the trail that goes directly by his house at a reasonable hour....he told the neighbor BMRA would close trails at 10....it made the neighbor happy and Gary says he will not go back and tell the neighbor any different unless I bring him 400 member signatures.

We hardly ever trail ride at BMRA with a group of people....we usually go alone and trail ride alone....so I ,like Mudgod, do not want to have a mandatory chaperone while on TMTC property.
 
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